Re: [bcm] Web Services and Process definitions

["Bruce Peat" <BPeat@eProcessSolutions.com>]

I certainly do know if the information has passed - what are you talking
about??

I first know if I got to the URL, and then I can build in a business
acknowledgment.  You haven't forgotten checking if the message can be
interpreted correctly AND MAKES SENSE have you?

- Bruce


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David RR Webber" <david@drrw.info>
To: "Bruce Peat" <BPeat@eProcessSolutions.com>; <bcm@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [bcm] Web Services and Process definitions


Bruce,

We are going to have to send you in for some re-education!

RESTful is passe - its now called http-binding.

Jean-Jacques issued a huge rant this week on BPSS list - vis
this topic.  Basically - how do I put this politely? - http-binding
isn't worth squat when it comes to reliable stateful business
interactions.  You have no way of verifying anything happened,
that anyone got anything, nor what state a process has reached.
Apart from that - its great!! ; -)

JJ was actually recounting his e-banking experience with a
major bank - and his credit-card bill and their use of webpages
and emails - same grab-bag.  The bank *thinks* this is all
reliable messaging services - when in fact its not.  And they
don't care - because they just apply late charges anyway!!

So - http-binding - and its just fine for things like query to
registry - information pull - but be very careful otherwise...

Cheers, DW.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bruce Peat" <BPeat@eProcessSolutions.com>
To: <bcm@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 10:58 PM
Subject: Re: [bcm] Web Services and Process definitions


> I prefer RESTful services myself - simpler.
>
> - Bruce
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <nwasserman@adaptiveservices.com>
> To: <MIKE.LUBASH@DFAS.MIL>; <bcm@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 4:58 PM
> Subject: RE: [bcm] Web Services and Process definitions
>
>
> I think it's important to distinguish web service, as a technical means to
> capture loosely coupled, encapsulated interactive components, from
business
> services or business service components, which can be delivered with a
> number of different vehicles (automated on the web, outsourced, human).
> Since web service has become embedded as a term of art for the automated
> vehicle, I don't think it's wise to change its usage.
>
> For the technical web service, loose coupling works.  But for the business
> service interaction, it may be useful to think of the service in terms of
> "rich coupling", by which I mean that the service can respond to a complex
> set of information characterizing the needs of the service recipient.
> There may be differing degrees in the "richness" of the coupling.  Using a
> biological metaphor, not all organs have to be equally adaptive to the
> outside environment.  Likewise, some service components may be specialized
> to support interaction with complex service recipients like human beings.
> Other service components can get by with less rich interactive
> capabilities, such as those that deal with standard databases, and
> communications protocols.  In between these poles would be service
> components such as semantic brokers.  Not to make things too complicated,
> maybe there is a spectrum of interactivity with "process" at the
procedural
> end and "service" at the service-recipient-oriented end.
>
> Neil
>
>
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