From: Robin Cover [mailto:robin@oasis-open.org]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2012 11:21
To: Mangold, Kevin C.
Cc: Chet Ensign; Tilton, Cathy; Micheals, Ross J.; Robin Cover
Subject: Re: OASIS Biometrics TC Questions Oh, dear! Email messages today prompted me to discover that
I failed to ACK the response of Kevin (below) on July 3rd, and
that of Cathy Tilton in the same thread [1], also July 03, 2012.
Kevin and Cathy: please forgive me. I sincerely apologize.
Your responses are more than adequate in reply to my
_expression_ of interest in crafting a compelling new
charter for new work. It's quite acceptable to omit any
references to particular frameworks, architectural
styles, modeling languages, schema languages,
serialization formalisms, etc. It's also advisable IMO
to be sparing in the mention of **anything** declared to
be "out of scope", as that has come to haunt other OASIS
TCs. Just say: "Out of Scope: (a) new recipes for brewing
Belgian ale (b) new methods for swinging in a swing"
(that's already patented).... "anything not declared
'out of scope' is deemed to possibly be in scope.." ;-)
Similarly: there's no need to mention particular
modalities (and I read yesterday about a startup
using heartbeat patterns in multi-factor biometrics)...
If such things are mentioned as a means of
demonstrating the KINDS of topics possibly to be
addressed, then you can just be clear that they
are examples.
Another way to add flexibility is to indicate that the TC
will remain open to the contribution of additional use
cases and requirements throughout TC lifecycle,
and to correspoonding in-scope new deliverables to
match the new use cases, subject to TC member
evaluation and resolution. In fact: that's how some OASIS
TCs work, and it's allowed under TC Process. IMO it
should be enouraged in any TC charter proposal where
the co-proposers can agree to have long-range vision to
work on new (in-scope) projects not known at the initial
time of chartering.
Example: the Open Web Foundation (model) has been
attractive to some new initiatives, including some at W3C.,
specifically because it makes no assumptions about
binding participants to a pre-determined agreement about
(detailed) scope for deliverables. The philosophy
adopted in this general model [caveat: I was involved] was
that the first order of business in a specification development
initiative may be to wrestle with the topic, broadly
considered, to better understand the actual problems
in technology and policy, so that requirements and use
cases can be written in a more informed manner, and
then to identify further deliverables beyond the documents
that detail the problem statements, to set out the
requirements for standardization. Then proceed to write
implementation specs that meet the requirements. I believe
this too is allowed at OASIS, but TCs often don't opt for
that approach. [2]
I probably won't be in Sarasota for your meeting, but I will
remain actively engaged in any conversations where my
inputs are useful, so please keep me in the loop
whenever possible.
Kindest regards and best wishes.
- Robin
[1] From Cathy; see Kevin's message below From: "Tilton, Cathy" <Cathy.Tilton@daon.com> To: "Mangold, Kevin C." <kevin.mangold@nist.gov>, Robin Cover <robin@oasis-open.org> CC: Chet Ensign <chet.ensign@oasis-open.org>, "Micheals, Ross J." <ross.micheals@nist.gov> Subject: RE: OASIS Biometrics TC Questions Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 17:20:34 +0000 Message-ID: <9A74EBEB33C73346B98996724843F1224300A5E2@IIU-EXDB1.iiu.ie> References: <D7A0423E5E193F40BE6E94126930C4930B9DAAB5AA@MBCLUSTER.xchange.nist.gov> <CAAwgnnNU44RfYRDc=utz9mJseYQKh5OGzGF0JW4MgdwK6xtYYA@mail.gmail.com> <9A74EBEB33C73346B98996724843F1224300A12E@IIU-EXDB1.iiu.ie> <CAAwgnnPBKGcz9POpdCkNHmjr2tzTDGGyTnTwrzD=8mmpvxawBA@mail.gmail.com> <D7A0423E5E193F40BE6E94126930C4930B9DAAB84F@MBCLUSTER.xchange.nist.gov> <CADPQ6gjLC9kJfGnk6GQoLNUAW2gVk4dLK3Xhi2M8DaTevhdexA@mail.gmail.com> <D7A0423E5E193F40BE6E94126930C4930B9DAABA27@MBCLUSTER.xchange.nist.gov> In-Reply-To: <D7A0423E5E193F40BE6E94126930C4930B9DAABA27@MBCLUSTER.xchange.nist.gov> To add to what Kevin has said, we do hope to do a REST implementation of BIAS,
but our idea was to not overly constrain ourselves with the charter so as to have some flexibility for future projects. We found the BIAS TC
charter to be too restrictive so that once our SOAP Profile was done, it
was difficult to take on other projects, such as the WS-BD. Thanks so much for the feedback! CT [2] http://www.openwebfoundation.org/
"Following the open source model similar to the Creative
Commons, the foundation is aimed at building a lightweight
framework to help communities deal with the legal
requirements necessary to create successful and widely
adopted specifications." On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 12:10 PM, Mangold, Kevin C. <kevin.mangold@nist.gov> wrote: Robin, Here is the answer to some of your questions: · The “Specification for WS-Biometric Devices” deliverable is, indeed, NIST SP 500-288 Specification for WS-Biometric Devices (WS-BD). · As for a more definitive meaning of “web services”, our intentions are to not limit anything to REST, SOAP, or another technology that uses the web/internet/networking to perform/offer some type of service or operation. · There is no limit to any particular modalities that this new TC will focus on—it is dependent on the market, participation, expertise, and need. · It would be nice to have liaison relationships with ISO/IEC JTC 1 SC 37 (and possibly SC 27) and INCITS M1, but this is something that will need to be investigated once the TC is officially created. After some discussion and thought, I do agree that the charter needs to be more developed before we should move forward. Our hope was to take advantage of the face-to-face opportunity in September to start this, however, there is also talk about using this time to allow for a brainstorming session between us and interested participants. This would include history of the BIAS TC and how that TC will be moving forward, what some of our ideas are for the new TC, hearing what others would like to see, and what are the requirements and benefits to becoming an OASIS member and TC member. For the last point, it would be great if someone from OASIS would be able to make the trip to talk about this, in person, but I understand this may not be possible. If necessary, either myself, Ross, or Cathy could take the action to look into this further and act on your behalf in this matter—let us know what you are thinking about this. Robin, I will take your questions and answer them to the best as I can in the charter to offer the detail and clarity needed to attract the appropriate audience. Thank you, Kevin From: Robin Cover [mailto:robin@oasis-open.org]
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 10:50
To: Mangold, Kevin C.
Cc: Chet Ensign; Tilton, Cathy; Micheals, Ross J.; Robin Cover
Subject: Re: OASIS Biometrics TC Questions Team:
I have a question for Kevin and Ross, along with a couple concerns about
how to optimally position the new biometrics TC so that we can draw upon
a broader base of candidate participants for the new work.
First: I am delighted to see that the core group (BIAS TC) wants to
continue work in biometrics standardization at OASIS. I don't know
a lot about the technologies, but it seems that with the increasing
use of near-field computing, smart cards, airport "clearlane"
(iris scan) processing, the field is wide open, and more standardization
will be needed.
NIST obviously has a remarkable record in this area: I've been doing
research over the companies that support biometric devices, and I
think I see as many references to "compliance with NIST" formulations
as to ISO/IEC, where formal standardization still happens. So, from
the OASIS POV, I see NIST's visible role in the new TC as a big
attraction [1].
In that connection, I wonder (Ross,Kevin) whether there are plans
to have the NIST specification recently published as SP 500-288
contributed to the new OASIS TC. NIST (via Ross
Micheals) indicated in December 2010 that the
technical specification to be developed at NIST might be
brought back to OASIS into a new TC [2]. In the latest
draft charter for the (projected) new OASIS TC, I spotted
"List of Deliverables
- Specification for WS-Biometric Devices
- Maintenance the BIAS SOAP Profile and related work products as required
- Maintenance of the OASIS XML Common Biometric Format (XCBF) Standard and related work products as required
- Other standards, guidelines, recommendations, and deliverables as initiated and approved by the committee"
... so naturally I thought of:
Specification for WS-Biometric Devices (WS-BD)
NIST Special Publication 500-288 (Version 1)
Recommendations of the National Institute of Standards and Technology
http://www.nist.gov/itl/iad/ig/upload/NIST-SP-500-288-v1.pdf
And related: when the charter proposal talks about Web Services,
does RESTful (along with SOAP) come into play? Which
modalities (if any in particular) are envisioned to be in play?
What liaisons with other partners (research orgs, industry
trade groups, SSOs, SDOs) are envisioned?
While I don't understand the scheduling proposals for a new TC
launch, I do have a concern that the Charter proposal be developed
with enough detail and clarity that it presents an attractive "offer"
to persons and companies interested in biometrics standards.
Where the BIAS TC has sometimes suffered from too few participants
(arguably), and we might not welcome a hundred, I think the TC
needs more critical mass.
Do the proposers agree with the above, and if so, can we work
to develop the charter proposal more fully so that it may attract
more players?
Thanks for your consideration on this.
- Robin
PS Please feel free to forward this note to the other TC
co-proposers, or candidate/potential co-proposers.
[1] WS-Biometric Devices Specification
http://www.nist.gov/itl/iad/ig/bws.cfm
http://biometrics.nist.gov/
http://face.nist.gov/
http://fingerprint.nist.gov/
http://iris.nist.gov/
MBARK: Multimodal Biometric Application Resource Kit
http://mbark.nist.gov/
[2]
"NIST is committed to providing an open specification for
controlling biometric sensors via web services. (We have
been calling this “WS-Biometric Devices” internally.) Given
this, I propose that we postpone the creation of an OASIS
Biometric Web Services committee. The NIST Biometric
Web Services team will continue to work on a formal
specification of “WS-Biometric Devices,” releasing drafts
for public comment as we go. Such a specification might
become the basis for future OASIS work, much like the
CBEFF work started as a NIST Interagency Report (IR)
and was eventually evolved into an ISO standard.
[...]
As mentioned previously, closing the discussion list does
not preclude us from establishing a TC at a later date. In
the meantime, NIST will be working on ‘WS-Biometric
Devices,’ a specification for exposing biometric devices
via web services.
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/bws-discuss/201012/msg00000.html
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/bws-discuss/201012/msg00005.html
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Mangold, Kevin C. <kevin.mangold@nist.gov> wrote: We are targeting September 19th to have this meeting. It is cutting it close--we might have to resort to have this be an unofficial brainstorming session which we can bring into the new TC.
-----Original Message-----
From: Chet Ensign [mailto:chet.ensign@oasis-open.org]
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 17:47
To: Tilton, Cathy
Cc: Mangold, Kevin C.; Micheals, Ross J.; Robin Cover
Subject: Re: OASIS Biometrics TC Questions
> 1) Thanks so much for this information
You're welcome <grin>
> 2) July 11th may be a bit soon since most of us are leaving for the SC37 meetings this weekend and will be gone through the 18th, but is possible.
If the meeting were via conference call, it would only be 30 days after the call for participation. But that defeats the purpose of holding it in connection with the event, right?
> 3) Could we do this WRT 1st meeting - could we hold an open (unofficial) meeting preceding the official (closed) meeting? I've seen this done in other TCs (though not associated with a very first meeting).
Well, it couldn't be a meeting of the TC because the TC wouldn't exist yet. What it *could* be would be an orientation / outreach event to get people educated to the coming TC and provided with all the info they'd need to get them motivated to join the TC at the first meeting.
It would probably be under the OASIS name or possibly OASIS and the BIAS TC name. I bet that Carol / Jane could work with you to frame this up in a good way so that it would help with your outreach.
Something similar to that happened before the first LegalDocumentML TC meeting. There was a all-day set of presentations and training sessions in Washington D.C. the day after a related conference. It was not billed as an OASIS / TC event but rather focused on the proposed spec itself. In any case, it was successful and got several people to join OASIS and the TC.
> 4) Question - remind me, is there any vote we need to take in the BIAS TC related to this? I'm thinking at some point we would need to vote to close down and move our work into the new TC, but perhaps that occurs after the new TC is established???
Closing the TC requires a full majority vote by the TC - not a Special Majority Ballot.
I would suggest two votes when you are ready:
- a vote to turn maintenance of BIAS SOAP Profile over to the new TC (not officially required but nice procedural way to connect the dots) and
- a vote to declare victory and close the TC.
And yes, I think the neatest way to do that is to hold the votes after the new TC launches.
/chet
>
> Thanks,
> CT
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chet Ensign [mailto:chet.ensign@oasis-open.org]
> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 4:58 PM
> To: Mangold, Kevin C.
> Cc: Tilton, Cathy; Micheals, Ross J.; Robin Cover
> Subject: Re: OASIS Biometrics TC Questions
>
> Hi Kevin,
>
> Just tried calling but email is fine too.
>
> Per timeframe, I see that the conference is Sept. 18 - 20. If I take the 20th as a target date -- and assuming that since you want to have it in concert with the conference you are thinking of a face-to-face meeting -- you would need to officially submit the charter by Wednesday July 11th at the latest. That assumes we have been over it before hand and we're all sure that there will be no technical problems with the submission such as missing primary member statements.
>
> The schedule would be something like this:
>
> Submission of charter - 7/11.
> Sent out in call for comment - 7/12
> End of call for comment period - 7/26
> Convener call - 7/27
> Depending on whether any further changes are needed after the convener call, call for participation sent out by 8/6 at the latest.
> 45 days from then to the first meeting
>
> Obviously leaving ourselves more time is better but if the assumptions hold, I would plan on this as your schedule.
>
> As to participation at the first meeting, participants must:
>
> - Be OASIS members
> - Have joined the TC at least 7 days prior to the first meeting *if*
> they wish to / intend to vote at the first meeting, otherwise
> - Join the TC at some point before the first meeting
>
> Best - /chet
>
> On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 3:36 PM, Mangold, Kevin C.
> <kevin.mangold@nist.gov> wrote:
>> Chet,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have a few questions regarding our proposed TC. Most importantly,
>> how likely is it that the charter will have gone through and been
>> approved, and ready for the first meeting by mid-September? We have
>> discussed having our first meeting at this year's Biometric
>> Consortium Conference and are hoping we can get all the logistics worked out.
>>
>>
>>
>> Secondly, Cathy and I were discussing the eligibility requirements to
>> participate in the first TC meeting. What, if any, are there? Does
>> the organization need to be a current/active member? Does the
>> individual need to already have member status on the TC roster? I am
>> more than happy to discuss this over a quick phone call if that is easier, too.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Kevin Mangold
>>
>> National Institute of Standards and Technology
>>
>> Information Technology Lab / Information Access Division / Image
>> Group / Biometric Clients Lab
>>
>> Office: 301-975-5628
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> /chet
> ----------------
> Chet Ensign
> Director of Standards Development and TC Administration
> OASIS: Advancing open standards for the information society
> http://www.oasis-open.org
>
> Primary: +1 973-996-2298
> Mobile: +1 201-341-1393
>
> TC Administration information and support is available at
> http://www.oasis-open.org/resources/tcadmin
>
> Follow OASIS on:
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--
/chet
----------------
Chet Ensign
Director of Standards Development and TC Administration
OASIS: Advancing open standards for the information society http://www.oasis-open.org
Primary: +1 973-996-2298
Mobile: +1 201-341-1393
TC Administration information and support is available at http://www.oasis-open.org/resources/tcadmin
Follow OASIS on:
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--
Robin Cover
OASIS, Director of Information Services
Editor, Cover Pages and XML Daily Newslink
Email: robin@oasis-open.org
Staff bio: http://www.oasis-open.org/people/staff/robin-cover
Cover Pages: http://xml.coverpages.org/
Newsletter: http://xml.coverpages.org/newsletterArchive.html
Tel: +1 972-296-1783
--
Robin Cover
OASIS, Director of Information Services
Editor, Cover Pages and XML Daily Newslink
Email: robin@oasis-open.org
Staff bio: http://www.oasis-open.org/people/staff/robin-cover
Cover Pages: http://xml.coverpages.org/
Newsletter: http://xml.coverpages.org/newsletterArchive.html
Tel: +1 972-296-1783
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