Re: [bt-spec] FW: Issue 89

[Mark Little <mark_little@hp.com>]

Geoff, I'd be happy if you could also answer all other queries in the marked
up Word document and previous emails on this subject. They are all meant to
be constructive, despite what you may feel. As I have said time and time
again, if you can show that this is a useful thing to do then I believe we
should consider it. However, you have not done that and perhaps that is
simply down to mis-communication. I know that HP is not the only company on
the committee that feels the same and that others have expressed this in
same concern in face-to-face meetings.

The fact that you continue not to answer these real issues does not do this
issue any good. I know that we are all busy with other things, but if you
feel strongly about this issue then I hope you will find the time to try to
convince myself and others.

Mark.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoffrey Brown" <Geoffrey.Brown@oracle.com>
To: "WEBBER,JIM (HP-UnitedKingdom,ex1)" <jim_webber@hp.com>
Cc: "Bt-Spec" <bt-spec@lists.oasis-open.org>; "Brown,Geoffrey"
<GEOFFREY.BROWN@oracle.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [bt-spec] FW: Issue 89


> Hi Jim,
>
> As this is a constructive request from yourself (HP) I am happy to
elaborate
> elaborate. Considering that the BTP contains a huge amount of TP Gurus
this
> should make sense .. I hope ;-)
>
> The issue :
> -----------
>
> It is very attractive to gain "peer" level inter operability with the BTP
TM, by
> "peer" level inter operability I mean the ability of a non-BTP TM to
collect the
> state ( on demand ) and therefore continue execution within a traditional
TP
> infrastructure.
>
> A natural by-product of this approach is that it provides much greater
levels of
> HA.
>
> Where this comes from :
> -------------------------
>
> My experience with integrating transactional application and navigating
supply
> chains ( i.e. vendors apps et al ) is that one has to "patch" together
> transactional state across TPMs. This is a well known problem that many
SIs
> face, due to limitations with TP monitors this is usually addressed by
> asynchronous messaging. Ironically this is exactly why TP monitors can not
be
> used across the web today ; I architected Oracle's Message Broker for this
very
> reason.
>
> Summary :
> -----------
>
> This is not rocket science .. this is common sense. Bindings allow
> "client-server" inter operability only. Let me be clear that bindings are
needed
> but I feel they do not address the aforementioned problem .. *IF* the BTP
> committee want a truly *OPEN* transaction infrastructure then this
proposal
> addresses the problem.
>
> Again I propose this approach as an "optional" part of the BTP spec - for
large
> scale complex transactional infrastructures. The BTP TM should only render
its
> current state in XML on DEMAND and not for every single operation.
>
> If there are any constructive alternatives please let me know as I will be
very
> happy to apply these to the real-world problems that the industry faces.
>
> Geoff.
>
>
> "WEBBER,JIM (HP-UnitedKingdom,ex1)" wrote:
>
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I've just read Geoff's document and Mark's comments. Now I am perfectly
> > willing to accept that I might be being naïve here, but could someone
please
> > clarify for me what precisely the benefits of sharing state in a common
> > format are? I can well enough see the drawbacks for myself, but I am
rather
> > finding the benefits difficult to quantify.
> >
> > I don't have an objection to J2EE (or any other platform for that
matter)
> > interop with BTP, but does sharing of state (as opposed to say defining
> > standard bindings at the message level) really achieve that objective in
a
> > straightfoward way?
> >
> > Again, this isn't a rebuttal to the Oracle/Choreology suggestion, more
of a
> > plea for help in understanding its value.
> >
> > Ta.
> >
> > Jim
> >
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