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Subject: RE: [business-transaction] RE: This Thursday's teleconference


Hi Mark,
 
Just to clarify our position, we view the current spec draft as sufficient, perhaps even a bit overly complex, and view the proposals for additional change as adding to the complexity, and therefore not necessarily helping anything.  We have this view regardless of what was or was not previously decided.
 
Thanks,

Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Potts [mailto:mark.potts@talkingblocks.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 8:57 PM
To: 'Mark Little'; 'btp'
Cc: mark@arjuna.com
Subject: [business-transaction] RE: This Thursday's teleconference

All,
 
I am a little concerned about this. Firstly let me say I certainly can understand some frustration, especially from those that have committed and spent countless hours working on the spec to this point, surrounding questions and concerns that make us revisit decisions already voted on and agreed. However lets make sure we understand what was being discussed on last weeks call (for those that were not present, or may have misinterpreted the rationale behind the concerns). On the call there were some people  - me included - that expressed fears about the adoption of the spec - I think having people raise these concerns was and is legitimate and we need to discuss them. No one was saying we halt work on the spec and certainly from my own perspective I don't want to do anything to delay the spec publication. However a spec will not gain adoption if it fails to gain consensus from peers, address a pain point customers are facing or is simply too complex to be a viable solution for the majority of problems being faced. On the call concerns were raised, no actions items or vote proposals about descoping the spec or writing user manuals were made, it was simply suggested that when the next spec is reviewed we should also consider the complexity and barriers to adoption that might or may not exist.
 
BTP is open standards committee and the premise of OASIS is to get industry together for formulate agreed upon specifications, while I share the concerns of other members in delaying the publication of the spec - I also think its essential that we review and look at the potential and barriers for adoption  - BTP will not be successful unless it gains adoption however good the spec is, or however good the limited implementations are , and we need to be mindful of this. I would say lets discuss this matter  - not over the next 2 weeks but on Thursday, canvas opinion, and then we need to propose 1 or more courses of action that people can vote upon. I don't think people are at opposite ends of the spectrum on this issue and I would hate for this to blow out as an issue and cause rifts in the TC  ( that certainly would not help adoption ) the TC members need to be in agreement and be prepared to stand behind what we deliver as a spec, and the more that do the better the potential adoption.
 
Just as Mark Little pointed out in adding scope to the specification ( ala Sazi's proposal ) the delay and complexity will hurt us, I think myself and one or two others are simply suggesting that during the next review phase we consider that exact same point in regard to the spec as a whole. On the opposite side of that, I don't think that some of the decisions we have made at points in time based should not be revisited, decisions have been made as we have progressed based on the info and material available at the time, but that does not mean there is never scope to revisit them and review them  - I think that is all people are were suggesting. I am a little confused, by this formal proposal as some of those named were in agreement on the last call that we should consider this point - anyhow lets discuss and hash this point Thursday, but lets try and make it solution-oriented not confrontational.
 
Regards,
-------------------------------------------------
Mark Potts
Chief Technology Officer
Talking Blocks
 
t. 415 255 7424
f. 415 255 7425
c. 415 606 9096
-------------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Little [mailto:mcl@arjuna.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 2:34 AM
To: btp
Cc: mark@arjuna.com
Subject: This Thursday's teleconference
Importance: High

Given the discussions generated over the last few weeks about the shape/content and future of any BTP specification, and the delays to any attempts to adopt, we the undersigned wish to call a formal vote on the following issue, to be resolved at the next teleconference on 11th of October 2001:
 
The Technical Committee confirms the scope as determined by the last San Jose face-to-face in late July and the subsequent quorate and minuted teleconference of 16 August, namely:

To define the interoperable messages to be sent between initiators and the factory, terminators and coordinators/composers, enrollers and superiors, superiors and inferiors (including the roles and responsibilities of sub-coordinators and sub-composers in a transaction tree), and the relationship of contexts and replies to application messages, plus facilities for recovery including message redirection, and compounding capability to allow one-shot optimization and one-wire topology. A concrete binding to SOAP and SOAP-with-attachments is included. Partial role-based conformance is defined.

and further resolves to close discussion on issues of scope in the interests of rapid adoption of the Committee Specification.

Mark Little (HP), Jim Webber (HP), Eric Newcomer (IONA), Pyounguk Cho (IONA), Alex Ceponkus, Alastair Green (Choreology), Peter Furniss (Choreology), Bill Pope, James Tauber (Bowstreet)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
SENDER : Dr. Mark Little, Architect (Transactions), HP Arjuna Labs
PHONE  : +44 191 206 4538, FAX : +44 207 670 1964
EMAIL  : mark@arjuna.com | mark_little@hp.com



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