[business-transaction] Minutes for 8 November 2001 Meeting

[William Cox <William.Cox@bea.com>]

Summary of action items is at the end.

Respectfully submitted,
bill cox


Minutes of BTP conference call, 8 November 2001
Noon Eastern Standard Time

Attendees:
- James Tauber, Bowstreet
- Geoff Brown, Oracle
- Alex Ceponkus, individual
- Alex Berson, Entrust
- Mark Little, HP
- Alastair Green, Choreology
- Peter Furniss, Choreology
- Jim Webber, HP
- Steve White, SeeBeyond
- Bill Pope, individual
- Sazi Temel, BEA
- Pyounguk Cho, Iona
- Gordon Hamilton, Applied Theory
========= non-voting ============
Tony Fletcher, Choreology (prospective member)
Bill Cox, BEA (prospective member)
Victor Corrales, HP (observer)
Doug Bunting, Sun (prospective member)

1. Prior meeting minutes (1 November 2001) were approved.
2. Motions

A. Reconsideration of Motion to close technical issues list on
15 November 2001 (approved at 1 November 2001 Meeting).

Discussion:
Alastair said that we cannot make the 15 November deadline.
There are 58 issues, ranging from "change a word" to "rewrite
the whole thing."  We also need to get all the new people
through the issues.  He and Peter have bundled each person's
editorial issues into a single one.  Editorial issues are at
the OASIS BTP web site.

Geoff Brown said that there are a large number of issues, and
more coming.  One common point is that there needs to be much
more work done to have a standard that is palatable for the
higher level vendors and that works with other standards.  He
proposed a Face-to-Face meeting in mid-December (see next
motion).  Discussion on that motion was interleaved; these
minutes will separate insofar as possible.

Bill Cox suggested a complete pass to edit for readability
and restructuring so problems not currently visible could be
seen.  Alastair said that we have a usable draft but it's far
from a usable specification.  Presentation has been a
secondary concern.  We should work through the issues list in
tranches – every two weeks do another group.  He strongly
disagrees that a readability editing pass is needed; Bill Cox
agreed that the readability and issue processing could
proceed in parallel. [tranch means "in groups
sharing some common characteristics."  Editor]

Peter Furniss said that, based on his experience, the minimum
that a standard must do is document the agreements reached in
the standards meeting.  Second level is to define precisely
what to implement.  Third level should explain what's going
on.  Alastair or Peter said that We've targeted the second level.
Alastair added that level three should be addressed by a primer.
The spec is not intended to "persuade the industry." The current
draft, however, is not easy to understand.  We need to move to
closure, not 15 December; he would be happy with 15 March.

Bill Pope said that the nub of this is clarity and how we
accomplish that. The separation of primer from core allowed
for separation in time, so we could do a core spec followed
by information material.  A further discussion followed on
primer/introductory/explanatory material and how to make
understanding/acceptance easier.

Alastair volunteered to produce a synthesis of papers and
slides he has prepared and submitted to OASIS for use in BTP.

ACTION (Alastair Green): Create and send a draft of
introductory/explanatory material and send to Bill Cox
(William.Cox@bea.com) for initial comments.

Peter Furniss said that he visualized publishing intermediate
drafts with editorial and clarification changes.

Bill Pope reminded us that people thinking that the list
would close 15 November caused more directed work than
heretofor.


The motion as voted was  "Establish the deadline for
technical issues submission of 30 November 2001."

MOTION CARRIED by unanimous consent.

B. Plan a Face-to-Face meeting in mid-December.

Discussion:
Geoff Brown suggested this meeting to allow whiteboarding
sessions on the major issues and resolution/rating of the
issues on the list.

Mark Little raised concerns whether the time between 30
November and 15 December would be adequate to get the issues
to a manageable level.  Peter Furniss hoped that the F2F
would deal with issues that are complex and bear on each
other (and are hard to resolve by email or telephone).  He
added that this moves the aftermath into January, with
another major draft that might be approved with only a few
editorial typos remaining.

A brief discussion on phone access lead to the conclusion
that phone access through the entire F2F didn't work well and
mitigated the benefits of a F2F.  Bill Pope said that we'd
have a readout teleconference from the meeting, and send out
meeting minutes and/or progress reports.

Geoff suggested a full walkthrough on a whiteboard so we can
understand and agree on the flows.  This is to get everyone
on the same page, which is not true today.  It's important to
get solid consensus so we're ready for the next stage—
everyone should understand completely at the end.  He
reminded us of problems with JMS caused by different
companies thinking they knew the spec, but implementing it
differently.  There's a similar danger for BTP.  We should go
through a process flow so we all see what's needed for a real
product.

Bill Pope suggested we plan on two days, and outside the F2F
do an electronic shared whiteboard to get everyone up to
speed.  We'll need two days for the issues over and above the
walkthroughs.

ACTION (Mark Little, Sazi Temel): Discuss presentation
mechanisms, select a presentation technology and date.

ACTION (Alastair, Mark Little, Peter Furniss): Decide which
of them will do the walkthrough.

Bill Cox offered an East Coast USA location (BEA, Liberty
Corner NJ, 20 miles west of New York City).

ACTION (All): Send email to Bill Pope with availability dates
for a Face-to-Face meeting in New Jersey mid-December.

 MOTION CARRIED by unanimous consent.



3. Summary of Action Items

ACTION (Alastair Green): Create and send a draft of
introductory/explanatory material and send to Bill Cox
(William.Cox@bea.com) for initial comments.

ACTION (Mark Little, Sazi Temel): Discuss presentation
mechanisms, select a presentation technology and date.

ACTION (Alastair, Mark Little, Peter Furniss): Decide which
of them will do the walkthrough.

ACTION (All): Send email to Bill Pope with availability dates
for a Face-to-Face meeting in New Jersey mid-December.

4. Meeting Adjourned 1:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time

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