[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]
Subject: Raw chat log of 2012-10-23 conf call
Martin Chapman (Oracle): +1 866-682-4770 +1 408-774-4073 0800-694-8154 (UK toll free) +44 208 118-1001 +44 844 493-6817 800-819-5024 (CN toll free) +86 400 670-0514 conf id: 9238410# security code: CAMPONE# that's 2267663# *6/*6 to Mute/Unmute(lots of other country dial ins avail, please email me jeff.mischkinsky@oracle.com)
Web-conf: http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/oasis-camp This meeting counts towards voter eligibility. ________________________________________ Agenda 1. Call to Order and Welcome 2. Volunteer for Note Taking 3. Roll Call. 4. Nominations for Chair/Co-Chairs. 5. Election of Chair or Co-Chairs 6. Welcome from OASIS Staff7. TC Charter Review - https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/camp/charter.php
8. TC OperationsNOTE: These are planned to be discuss-only at this meeting to give folks a chance to think about the issues and proposals. We'll try to formally adopt rules at a future meeting, probably of operation at the first
8a. TC Process Overview - https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/camp/download.php/47251/TC-Process-orientation-CAMP-TC.ppt 8b. JIRA-Orientation - https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/camp/download.php/47252/JIRA-orientation-CAMP-TC.ppt
8c. Potential CAMP TC Issue Resolution Process - https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/camp/download.php/47250/CAMP%20TC%20Proposed%20Issues%20Process%20v6.ppt8d. Potential Roles/positions - e.g. secretary, issues editor(s), spec/note editor(s), testing coordinator
8e. Potential Standing Rules
Super majority to re-open closed and deferred issues
9. Proposed f2f meeting 6-8 Nov 2012 - at Oracle HQ - Redwood
Shores, CA - USA
10. Proposed Teleconference Meeting Schedule
weekly Tuesdays 08:00-09:00 PT
11. AOB (Any Other Business)
12. Adjourn
anonymous morphed into charlie tuiptza
Tom Rutt (US- Fujitsu) morphed into Tom Rutt (Fujitsu)
charlie tuiptza morphed into charlie tuiptza (JumpSoft)
charlie tuiptza (JumpSoft): We are waiting for host on call right?
Martin Chapman (Oracle): yes - call starts in 10 minutes
Martin Chapman (Oracle): 8am pt, 11am eastern
Martin Chapman (Oracle): 4pm uk, 5pm cet
charlie tuiptza (JumpSoft) morphed into Charlie Tupitza (JumpSoft)
anonymous morphed into Dale Moberg (Axway)
anonymous1 morphed into Andrzej Parkitny (TELUS)
Bhaskar Reddy morphed into Bhaskar Reddy (Software AG)
jeff.mischkinsky: hi everyone
jeff.mischkinsky: i'm going to give folks a few more minutes to dial in
anonymous morphed into Bala Krishnan(Cognizant)
anonymous1 morphed into Adrian Otto
Chet Ensign (OASIS) uploaded file: TC-Process-orientation-CAMP-TC.ppt
anonymous2 morphed into MIchael Behrens
anonymous morphed into Duncan Johnston-Watt
MIchael Behrens morphed into Michael Behrens
anonymous morphed into Tim Barry
Duncan Johnston-Watt: Jeff - Alex Heneveld is here but stepped away
Tim Barry morphed into Tim Barry (Quantum)
Adrian Otto morphed into Adrian Otto (Rackspace)
Duncan Johnston-Watt morphed into Duncan Johnston-Watt (Cloudsoft)
Duncan Johnston-Watt (Cloudsoft): Jeff - Rich Miller sends his apologies
- he is on vacation
Please change your name from 'anonymous' using the Settings buttonThere are files uploaded to this room. Please click on the 'Files' button for more information.
Anish Karmarkar: Scribe: Anish Karmarkar Anish Karmarkar: Topic: Welcome Anish Karmarkar: Convenor/OASIS TC Admin welcomes the TC Anish Karmarkar: Topic: Roll Anish Karmarkar: Roll taken by Jeff Anish Karmarkar: Topic: Nominations for Chair/Co-Chairs Anish Karmarkar: Martin Chapman is nominated Ashok Malhotra (Oracle): I think a co-chair is a good idea! Anish Karmarkar: discussion on whether to have a co-chair Anish Karmarkar: Tom: would there be weekly meetingsAnish Karmarkar: Martin: there would be weekly meeting. Do support having a co-chair
Anish Karmarkar: Jeff: need to decide if we want to have co-chairs Jacques (Fujitsu): can we wait before deciding co-chairs?Anish Karmarkar: Duncan: support for Martin as chair, given his past experience. Should hold off on the co-chair
Chet Ensign (OASIS): Jacques, yes - the TC can choose to elect a co-chair at a later date.
Anish Karmarkar: Jeff: any more nominations? Anish Karmarkar: None Anish Karmarkar: One nomination for chair: Martin Chapman Anish Karmarkar: Jacques: support Martin's nominationAnish Karmarkar: Jeff: any objection to unanimous consent for electing Martin as the chair?
Anish Karmarkar: no objections Anish Karmarkar: Martin Chapman is the chair Anish Karmarkar: <gavel passed to Martin> Anish Karmarkar: Topic: agenda approval Anish Karmarkar: Jeff moves, Tom seconds to approve the agenda Anish Karmarkar: no discussion or objections to approving the agenda Anish Karmarkar: Topic: Welcome from OASIS Staff (Chet)Anish Karmarkar: Chet: posted a presentation on the process https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/camp/download.php/47251/TC-Process-orientation-CAMP-TC.ppt
Martin Chapman (Oracle) you can change your name from anonymous under settings
Anish Karmarkar: Chet walks through the presentationAnish Karmarkar: Chet: my job is to support the TC in its work and communicate processes/best practices, and help with doc review, votes as well as get your feedback
Anish Karmarkar: ... start with WD, iterate. Can go directly to CSPRD or interate through CSD. Followed by CS. Process is iterative.
Anish Karmarkar: ... then comes candidate OASIS standard, followed by OASIS standard (voted by the membership). Can do errata. This is the standards track work product
Anish Karmarkar: ... non-standard track documents (whitepapers, notes etc) only go through: WD, CND, CNPRD
Anish Karmarkar: ... plus there are admin docs (minutes etc) Anish Karmarkar: ... typical timeframe runs anywhere from 1yr-1.5yrs Anish Karmarkar: ... things go to oasis library only when it goes to CSDAnish Karmarkar: ... TC contributions should be done by loading the doc in the doc repository and sending an email. TC is under no obligation to do anything with it.
Anish Karmarkar: ... It means that OASIS has been granted non-exclusive right to publish the contribution in the context of the work of the TC
Anish Karmarkar: Ashok: in the process there is no mention of implementation or testing
Anish Karmarkar: Chet: did that to keep the presentation short. But this is up to the TC to decide. Number of TCs have started implementing code during the drafting stage and getting feedback during that stage. Others start at CS stage. OASIS rules require that when u go out as CS, you have to specify what an implementation is required to do to claim to be conformant.
Anish Karmarkar: ... that section (conformance) is required to be in the spec. That means the TC members have to give some thought to it
Anish Karmarkar: ... before CS goes forward as a OASIS standard, there needs to be three stmts saying that 'we have implemented the spec' and refer to the conformance clause. This can be very detailed or not
Anish Karmarkar: ... those are the only 2 requirements. But the TC decides what else may be done
Jacques (Fujitsu): @chet: Martin was the main author of conf clause guidelines in the TAB (but I kept him smart & sharp on the content
Martin Chapman (Oracle): tc admin web page is at: https://www.oasis-open.org/resources/tcadmin
Anish Karmarkar: Chet: will send to the TC list links to a page that helps the TC in its work
Anish Karmarkar: ... must have quorum at a meeting to make decisionsAnish Karmarkar: ... missing two meetings in a row => lose voting rights. attending two meetings in a row => gain voting rights
Anish Karmarkar: ... TC uses Roberts Rules of Order Anish Karmarkar: ... happy to answer questions or help in any way Anish Karmarkar: Mark: can we request leave of absence? Anish Karmarkar: Chet: yes you can and you do not lose your voting rights Anish Karmarkar: ?: can we go from observer -> VMAnish Karmarkar: Chet: rejoin as member, attend 2 consecutive meetings and gain voting rights
Anish Karmarkar: Martin: if an observer has been attending and then they change to Member, do they still have to attend 2 meetings as Member before geting voting rights
Anish Karmarkar: Chet: two consecutive meetings as a Member, observer attendance does not count
Anish Karmarkar: Martin: LOA -- one/year. Additional have to be approved by TC
Anish Karmarkar: Martin: will follow RRO. motion/second etc. Goes pretty smoothly. Only VM can make motions and second
Mark Carlson (Oracle): How many voting members do we have today? And how many members are needed for quorum next call?
Anish Karmarkar: Topic: charter review Anish Karmarkar: https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/camp/charter.php Anish Karmarkar: Martin: opportunity to ask questions on the charterAnish Karmarkar: ... charter can be changed. If the charter is narrowed (scope), that is simple. If the scope is expanded, it gets complicated
Anish Karmarkar @mark quorum => > 50% Anish Karmarkar: Tom: one sentence have a concern about exit criterion Anish Karmarkar: Martin walks through the sections of the charterMark Carlson (Oracle): Is attendance tracked on Kavi? I only see 8 people recorded in the event..
Anish Karmarkar: @mark, yes, but it is not self-service, the chair has to do that (usually happens after the meeting)
Dave Jilk: I was able to do it by going into the CAMP website, to this event, and then "record attendance."
Anish Karmarkar: Tom: the idea of two different impl for each feature is a good idea. One concern about 'code base', what does it mean?
Anish Karmarkar: ... what happens if there is a high-quality OSS impl and two companies take that and create their own, why is that not allowed?
Mark Carlson (Oracle): In Kavi, there is a way to create an event where folks can record their own attendance. This event was created that wey. If you don't want members to record their own attendance, you need to turn that off.
Martin Chapman (Oracle): I will set it where only the chair or delegate can record attendance
Mark Carlson (Oracle): I would ask that the chair use Kavi to track attendance in real time so that folks can ensure that they are recorded for the meeting they are in.
Anish Karmarkar: Jeff: personally, i believe if two companies use the same OSS, that does not meet the criteria. The idea is to having a lower bar than SCA.
Anish Karmarkar: ... no point in having an abstract debate about this Anish Karmarkar: ... we can wait and see what happens Anish Karmarkar: Tom: we could change this charter item if we have to?Anish Karmarkar: Jeff: that is for the TC to decide what 'different codebase' means
Anish Karmarkar: ... you are allowed to make charter changes that narrow the scope
Anish Karmarkar: Martin: we can have a longer debate when we get to teh point of deciding the exit criteria
jeff.mischkinsky: for attendance: if you go to the calendar entry - you can click on record your attendance
jeff.mischkinsky: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/camp/event.php?event_id=33737
Michael Behrens: Beyond deliverables, which section in the charter are we reviewing (seems we skipped some of it).
jeff.mischkinsky: i'll work with martin and chet later to update any folks who don't record themselves ? i have people's attenance recorded on (gasp) a piece of paper
Anish Karmarkar: Gil: understand the concern about trying to figure out 'which code base is different'. Ultimately, it will come down to a vote of the TC to decide this. But if we are at that point, we are not in a good place.
Anish Karmarkar: Tom: don't want to change the charter at this time. Can live w/ it
Anish Karmarkar: Martin: we can have additional non-standard docs (eg: tutorial). we can decide on that.
Anish Karmarkar: ... after we are done, it is best practice to keep the TC alive and do maintenance
Anish Karmarkar: ... We are operating under the non-assert mode. Look up the OASIS IPR policy for details of that.
Anish Karmarkar: Jacques: charter has a line about testing. It says "Testing of the specification shall be performed in periodic plug fests." That is not the only way to do testing. To meet the deadline, it says that testing shall right away. This is a little aggresive
Anish Karmarkar: Andre: f2f meeting -- where is it and when? prasad: Time check? Anish Karmarkar: Martin: in california, will come to it Anish Karmarkar: Topic: TC Operations Anish Karmarkar: Martin: we do have JIRA that OASIS provides Anish Karmarkar: Chet: at the TC's request we'll set up a JIRA projectAnish Karmarkar: ... it is an issue tracking/mgmt. Number of TCs use it. Works quite well.
Anish Karmarkar: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/camp/download.php/47252/JIRA-orientation-CAMP-TC.ppt
Anish Karmarkar: Proposal for issue resolution process: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/camp/download.php/47250/CAMP%20TC%20Proposed%20Issues%20Process%20v6.ppt
Michael Behrens: JIRA is a good tool. Anish Karmarkar: Martin walks through the presentation Ashok Malhotra (Oracle): There is no such word as "un-conflate"Mark Carlson (Oracle): @prasad: Time check? - the Kavi event has this meeting for 1.5 hours...
Alex Heneveld (Cloudsoft): Apologies, folks, I need to leave. I will catch up with Duncan afterwards. Great finally to get this going!
Mark Carlson (Oracle): However, I would like it to only last 1 hour on a regular basis
Michael Behrens: 1 Hour sounds good as a rule to me, longer sessions can be held if agenda requires.
Ashok Malhotra (Oracle): +1 to 1 hour meeting Tom Rutt (Fujitsu): 3/4 vs more than 2/3 ??Anish Karmarkar: Martin: we should consider a higher bar for 'reopening' of issues
Anish Karmarkar: ... like a 2/3rd voteAnish Karmarkar: Mark: r u just going to give an overview or are you going to ask for approval? Suggest approval at the next meeting
Anish Karmarkar: Martin: agreeAnish Karmarkar: Martin: as we get closer to being done. We should then consider higher bar for new issues at that point
Anish Karmarkar: Mark: +1 to JIRA.Anish Karmarkar: Motion: Mark moves, Tom seconds to use OASIS JIRA for issue resolution
Anish Karmarkar: no discussion or objections to the motion Anish Karmarkar: motion is approved w/o objectionsMartin Chapman (Oracle): https://tools.oasis-open.org/issues/secure/Dashboard.jspa
Anish Karmarkar: Topic: meeting scheduleAnish Karmarkar: Martin: proposed meeting on 6-8 Nov 2012 - at Oracle HQ - Redwood Shores, CA - USA
Tom Rutt (Fujitsu): will there be teleconf access at this f2f? Anish Karmarkar: Jeff: thought it made sense to have a f2f sooner than later Anish Karmarkar: ... there will be telcon access to the f2f Mark Carlson (Oracle): We can set up a webex as wellMichael Behrens: ** F2F conflict: Cloud Expo West 2012 is November 5-8 in Santa Clara, CA.
Andrzej Parkitny (TELUS): Mark, Webex would help to get some context.Anish Karmarkar: ... the tentative agenda could be a a) tutorial on the contribution, b) testing methods by Jacques, d) set of issues from the creators of the contribution
Anish Karmarkar: ... there will be wifi at the meeting locationMark Carlson (Oracle): @Michael - hopefully that will help you justify the trip...
Anish Karmarkar: MichaelB: conflict with Cloud ExpoAnish Karmarkar: Jeff: OASIS was trying to get us to have the f2f at the expo, but logistics didn't work out
Anish Karmarkar: ... the problem is that if we push this out it goes into US TG holidays
Anish Karmarkar: MichaeB: should coordinate f2f agenda with the expo. The expo is open only for certain hours
Anish Karmarkar: Jeff: it is about 30 mins away when there is no trafficAnish Karmarkar: Jacques: for locals, it is preferable to have schedule of 9:30-5:30 instead of 9-5
Anish Karmarkar: Mark: anyone calling from EDT? That would be 8:30pmAnish Karmarkar: Martin: we'll get a draft agenda out. If ppl want to move it around to suit when they will attend, we can do that
Anish Karmarkar: Motion: jeff moves, TomR seconds to have a f2f 6-8 Nov 2012 - at Oracle HQ - Redwood Shores, CA - USA from 9:30am-5:30pm
Anish Karmarkar: no discussion or objections. Motion approved w/o objectionAnish Karmarkar: Martin: we need to decide on weekly calls. Weekly or no? Duration? Day/time.
Anish Karmarkar: ... suggest that we don't meet next week. But we meet this time every tue
Anish Karmarkar: Mark: we should meet next week to finalize the f2f agenda Anish Karmarkar: ... we meet weekly one hour Anish Karmarkar: Martin: was thinking of doing that over emailAnish Karmarkar: Jeff: the f2f agenda broad outline is clear. we can do email. Plus the TC will decide on it at the start of the f2f
Anish Karmarkar: Tom: we should make it 90 mins. If we don't need the time we can adjourn early. Getting on the calendar is important
Anish Karmarkar: Martin: agreeAnish Karmarkar: Mark: that is blocking of 2 hours on the calendar. My proposal is 1 hr
Anish Karmarkar: Tom: how about one hour later Mark Carlson (Oracle): I cannot meet an hour later - DMTF TC jeff.mischkinsky: i would prefer 8 am vs. 9 am Anish Karmarkar: Martin to set up a doodle pollDuncan Johnston-Watt (Cloudsoft): Separate question: How often do we plan on holding F2F meetings?
Anish Karmarkar: Martin: thinking February for the next f2f Anish Karmarkar: Martin: AOB? Anyone join late? Anish Karmarkar: Martin: no meeting next week. Will work on agenda for f2f Michael Behrens: Eugene Luster joined late. Anish Karmarkar: <time-check> Tom Rutt (Fujitsu): voting member requires not missing two meetings in a rowDuncan Johnston-Watt (Cloudsoft): Tom: But remote attendance at F2F ok - okay?
Anish Karmarkar: Meeting adjourned
[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]