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Subject: RE: [cgmo-webcgm] Updated DTD and sample instance
Benoit, It isn't always that easy. We have several million graphics that have been produced over a long period of time that use an abnormal font. They were designed when everything was delivered in paper form. Our printers had that font and everything was fine. We now want to deliver the graphics digitally and have found some acceptable font substitutions that work and make it so that users don't need to figure out how to obtain these esoteric fonts. All of the viewers have a configuration file that facilitates this substitution but every one is different. The goal was to have a standard way of specifying the font substitution. Stuart. > -----Original Message----- > From: Bezaire, Benoit [mailto:bbezaire@ptc.com] > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 7:09 AM > To: CGM Open WebCGM TC > Subject: RE: [cgmo-webcgm] Updated DTD and sample instance > > Dave, > > I simply think that standardizing font mapping in WebCGM to > solve the problem is the wrong approach. > > Why would you put Helvetica in the CGM file if you want > Tahoma as the display font? > > Ben > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cruikshank, David W [mailto:david.w.cruikshank@boeing.com] > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 11:59 AM > To: Bezaire, Benoit; CGM Open WebCGM TC > Subject: RE: [cgmo-webcgm] Updated DTD and sample instance > > Ben, > > My desire for having a standardized font mapping file is > really an interoperability issue. As a company that creates > products based on the technology and integrated with html > text, My ideal situation would be that I deliver the html and > graphics as a package and the end user accesses it with > whatever web browser and cgm viewer he desires. > Currently we are tied to IE, although both Boeing and Airbus > have expressed a desire to be platform/browser independent. > Even so, if I (or the user) decides to use a different cgm > viewer, I should not have to maintain multiple font mapping > files in my distribution of the package. > > If WebCGM is truly interoperable, it shouldn't make any > difference which viewer is installed and the font mapping > shouldn't be affected. > > The viewer vendors may want to distribute, as they do now, a > sample config file with what they consider "standard" font > mapping for their product, but as data creators, we know what > font names are in our cgm files and we know what fonts we > want to use for display. It could turn out in one of our > datasets, Tahoma is a better display font than Helvetica and > we want that font substitution across all viewers whenever > that dataset is displayed. > > Hopefully, that's a little insight into the requirement. > > Dave > > > Technical Fellow - Graphics/Digital Data Interchange Boeing > Commercial Airplane 206.544.3560, fax 206.662.3734 > david.w.cruikshank@boeing.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bezaire, Benoit [mailto:bbezaire@ptc.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 10:11 AM > To: CGM Open WebCGM TC > Subject: RE: [cgmo-webcgm] Updated DTD and sample instance > > Thanks for the pointers. > > I am personally not in favor of this. > > I think it should remain a user agent feature. An implementer > may want to provide a User Interface for resolving font > substitution issues (for example). > > I think the problem of font substitution should be dealt with > differently (ex: modifying the profile) instead of > standardizing a font mapping file. > > I also think authors need to be informed about the problem. > They should be using fonts that can be found on several > platforms. Not relying on optional font substitution mechanisms. > > I also have a lot of questions about the two elements: > <cgmFont> and <displayFont>? About <cgmFont>, where are the > font names defined? I see for example: Courier-BoldOblique in > the profile. > > Is there any chance that font name could be? > <cgmFont>COURIER_BOLDOBLIQUE</cgmFont> > <cgmFont>COURIER BOLD OBLIQUE</cgmFont> > <cgmFont>COURIER-BOLD_OBLIQUE</cgmFont> > <cgmFont>COURIER BOLDOBLIQUE</cgmFont> > > What are the rules? > > Same thing applies for <displayFont>... > > Sorry, but I see many headaches for implementers. From a > users perspective, they are likely familiar with our > preferences file and would probably appreciate status quo. > > My opinion, > Ben > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cruikshank, David W [mailto:david.w.cruikshank@boeing.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 11:02 AM > To: Bezaire, Benoit; CGM Open WebCGM TC > Subject: RE: [cgmo-webcgm] Updated DTD and sample instance > > Actually the WebCGM Profile does address font substitution > for interpreters. See T.26.6. I agree that implementing a > standard font mapping file requires a change to that table > with a reference to the new Chapter 9. > > It also addresses it on the generator side in T.25.4. > > Dave > > > > > Technical Fellow - Graphics/Digital Data Interchange Boeing > Commercial Airplane 206.544.3560, fax 206.662.3734 > david.w.cruikshank@boeing.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bezaire, Benoit [mailto:bbezaire@ptc.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 7:34 AM > To: CGM Open WebCGM TC > Subject: RE: [cgmo-webcgm] Updated DTD and sample instance > > Dave, not sure if you have email access by now. I wouldn't > mind getting your thoughts on this? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bezaire, Benoit [mailto:bbezaire@ptc.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 8:53 AM > To: CGM Open WebCGM TC > Subject: RE: [cgmo-webcgm] Updated DTD and sample instance > > I was under the impression the spec allowed a font mapping > mechanism, but it doesn't. The only thing the spec says is > that if the font is not present, the default font should be used. > > This, to me, is a user agent feature. If it gets standardize, > the profile would need to change. > > I would be in favor (if doable) to change the profile and > help the situation by, for example: > - allowing a list of font index (instead of one) on text > elements, (if the first font is not available, try the > following one, and so on). > - allowing generic font-families: serif, sans-serif, cursive, > fantasy, monospace > - modifying the list of allowed fonts in the profile, i.e., > select fonts that are available on multiple platforms. > > Overall, I would try to get rid of the font mapping mechanism > instead of standardizing it. Also I wonder if something that > has been around for 17 years should be modified. If users are > accustomed to the vendors files, why change them and possibly > risk new font related issues. > > Ben > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cruikshank, David W [mailto:david.w.cruikshank@boeing.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 2:14 PM > To: Bezaire, Benoit; CGM Open WebCGM TC > Subject: RE: [cgmo-webcgm] Updated DTD and sample instance > > > Every CGM product (viewer and illustrating packages) I've > worked with over the last 17 years has a font mapping > mechanism. This was an attempt to standardize that file. > Whether my computer (platform independent)has helvetica, > arial, swiss, etc., it allows me to control the display font > that I want to use from what is called out in the CGM file. > The WebCGM Profile calls out the Adobe 13 fonts. Included in > that list is 'Helvetica' (case insensitive). Helvetica is > not a font that Microsoft distributes in windows. It does > distribute Arial. I do have Helvetica in my unix box, but I > also have Swiss on that box. I may want to use it instead. > > Font mapping has been around for a long time in the CGM community. > > dave > > > Technical Fellow - Graphics/Digital Data Interchange Boeing > Commercial Airplane 206.544.3560, fax 206.662.3734 > david.w.cruikshank@boeing.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bezaire, Benoit [mailto:bbezaire@ptc.com] > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 1:04 PM > To: CGM Open WebCGM TC > Subject: RE: [cgmo-webcgm] Updated DTD and sample instance > > I've been thinking about this for a while, and I'm not > convinced this will help interoperability. I'm referring > mostly to the font mapping section. > > Are there any restrictions on the content of <cgmFont>? > Are there any restrictions on the content of <displayFont>? > > Are the problems mainly when going from Unix to Windows (and > vice versa)? > What's a typical (frequent) scenario? > > Ben > > -----Original Message----- > From: Cruikshank, David W [mailto:david.w.cruikshank@boeing.com] > Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 6:23 PM > To: CGM Open WebCGM TC > Subject: [cgmo-webcgm] Updated DTD and sample instance > > I found a problem in the WebCGM configuration DTD, fixed it, > and created sample instance to demonstrate its usage. > > The instance is made up using some of the PTC font mapping > table and some Boeing settings for the style properties. > > I have not incorporated scaling of the font glyphs in the x > and y direction yet, but will do that at the mapping level. > > The font mapping was set up only to be used by viewers. I > could extend it to cover both import and export, so it could > be applied to illustrating packages (thoughts?) > > Thx...Dave > <<webcgmConfig.dtd>> <<myconfig.xml>> > > Technical Fellow - Graphics/Digital Data Interchange Boeing > Commercial Airplane 206.544.3560, fax 206.662.3734 > david.w.cruikshank@boeing.com > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS > TC that generates this mail. You may a link to this group > and all your TCs in OASIS > at: > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgr oups.php > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS > TC that generates this mail. You may a link to this group > and all your TCs in OASIS > at: > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgr oups.php > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS > TC that generates this mail. You may a link to this group > and all your TCs in OASIS > at: > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgr oups.php > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS > TC that generates this mail. You may a link to this group > and all your TCs in OASIS > at: > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgr oups.php > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS > TC that generates this mail. 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