Re: [chairs] This Old House (OASIS) - Further Response to Peter Brown

Subject: Re: [chairs] This Old House (OASIS) - Further Response to Peter Brown

On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Anish Karmarkar <Anish.Karmarkar@oracle.com> wrote:

+1 from me as well.
It is indeed a very cool feature. Was implemented in W3C a while ago (as X-Archived-At) and I found it to be very useful.

-Anish
--

On 4/30/2010 7:10 AM, Robin Cover wrote:

On Fri, 30 Apr 2010, bill parducci wrote:

I believe that modern forum features include the ability to interact via
email as well as browser. This not only provides a natural archive
mechanism
that is referenced in each message, but also a reasonable search
mechanism
once you get there.

+1

It's even an Internet standards track protocol:

"The Archived-At Message Header Field"
IETF Standards Track Request for Comments #5064
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5064

In contexts where 'Archived-At' has been implemented, it
appears to be very popular. It allows you to compose email
messages or other documents from your laptop when you
are not connected to the Internet: from your local email
client message box, you can grab the 'Archived-At' URI
for a message and construct a URI reference for the
message that will resolve under DNS+HTTP. No need to
have access to a server in order to ascertain the message
URI in the archive.

It's quite cool (though some would say "obvious", after they become
familiar with the convention).

- Robin

Robin Cover
OASIS, Director of Information Services
Editor, Cover Pages and XML Daily Newslink
Email: robin@oasis-open.org
Staff bio: http://www.oasis-open.org/who/staff.php#cover
Cover Pages: http://xml.coverpages.org/
Newsletter: http://xml.coverpages.org/newsletterArchive.html
Tel: +1 972-296-1783

On Fri, 30 Apr 2010, bill parducci wrote:

I believe that modern forum features include the ability to interact
via email as well as browser. This not only provides a natural archive
mechanism that is referenced in each message, but also a reasonable
search mechanism once you get there.

b

On Apr 30, 2010, at 4:03 AM, Martin Chapman
<MARTIN.CHAPMAN@oracle.com> wrote:

Wouldn't it be great if each mail sent to a Tc list includes the url
to the archive location of each mail!
The problem with markmail, as Patrick hints at, is it's a separate
copy. If you locate a mail in markmail, you still have to go into
OASIS archives to get an OASIS URL

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Durusau [mailto:patrick@durusau.net]
Sent: 29 April 2010 12:08
To: robert_weir@us.ibm.com
Cc: chairs@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [chairs] This Old House (OASIS) - Further Response to
Peter Brown

Rob,

Just popped back in to close the office down.

On 4/28/2010 8:06 PM, robert_weir@us.ibm.com wrote:

Patrick Durusau<patrick@durusau.net> wrote on 04/28/2010 07:15:15 PM:

On 4/28/2010 5:11 PM, robert_weir@us.ibm.com wrote:

Oh, I think this is more like saying don't trust a house builder
whose toolbox is not neatly organized. Maybe, maybe not. I think
it is something that would need to be demonstrated, not assumed.

OK, how many examples would count for a demonstration?

Let's see if we can start with one good one.

OK, let's start at the OASIS homepage and go to the Committees by
Name page.

Limiting ourselves to active TCs.

Looking at the right hand menu bar, if you wanted to check on the
most recent activity of a TC, does
it seem likely you would choose the menu choice labeled "minutes?"

Pick any three TCs and see what result you get.

BTW, while you are at each of those TCs, you might want to see what
you get under Documents as well.

You might want to also check on the FAQ link as well for the TCs.

Having navigation links that consistently resolve to something
useful for all TCs isn't that high of a
bar.

Having TCs consistently store their documents so that members of the
public can find them, isn't that
high of a bar.

Give me a reasonable number and I will post them to this list, naming
names as it were.

Here's one to get us started (although this is true across all TCs
that I am aware of):

Follow this link to get ODF email archives:

http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/messages.php

Now, follow this link to get ODF email archives:

http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/office/

Do you notice anything different about those two pages?

(Hint: You can search using MarkMail with the second one.)

From the public-facing perspective, the later URL is what is pointed
to

from the TC's public-facing home page, so that is what I expect the
public would use. The former URL is linked to from the
password-protected Kavi page, so the public would not stumble on that
page. The exception would be a TC member posted an email with a
hyperlink to a URL from the private
repository. Is that what you are seeing? I know we had a problem
similar to that with doc repository links a while back.

Missing my point.

The email documents in both cases are identical.

Why shouldn't TC members when they are logged in have the same email
search capabilities (MarkMail) as
a member of the public?

Doesn't it seem odd that we would point TC members, who have logged
in, to less search capabilities
for email?

Err, would having a uniform way to access email archives, hopefully
MarkMail, be too much trouble?

I assume that, for IPR documentation reasons at least, OASIS will
always need to store their own copy of the emails. But I wonder if a
URL rewrite rule in Apache could simply redirect the "private" URLs to
the public copy? That would handle historic uses of the private URLs
as well as future ones.

Well, yes, the MarkMail archive is a separate copy, probably for IPR
reasons.

But that doesn't mean we need separate pages for search
capabilities. cf the default public page which
has both.

Hope you are at the start of a great day!

Patrick

-Rob

--
Patrick Durusau
patrick@durusau.net
Chair, V1 - US TAG to JTC 1/SC 34
Convener, JTC 1/SC 34/WG 3 (Topic Maps)
Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300
Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1,
13250-5 (Topic Maps)

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