[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]
Subject: RE: [ciq] Use of OASIS code list specs. in CIQ TC V3.0?
David,
If you could help me out, I'm not sure I understand what you're objecting
to with this proposal and I don't believe it's necessarily true that
"everyone knows what a codelist is and what it contains". Certainly if
you limit the code list information to simply the code and it's value, it's
extremely straight forward. However, the problem is that there are many
code lists that represent the same fundamental values and those code lists
evolve over time as the values represented change. So providing a
structure for a list of codes that includes all the meta data that the
parties involved in the exchange of information can use to identify that
they're working with the same lista seems very worthwhile and not all that
obvious.
To take a simple example and one that's relevant to CIQ, consider country
code. It would be wonderful if the world only used the ISO 3166 list in
its most up-to-date form, but that's not necessarily the case. There are
many lists that may be appropriate or at least preferred for a particular
communication.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_code
This is a simple example, but there are codes for everything and ensuring
that there is commonality seems to make common sense.
All that being said, I haven't yet fully reviewed the Code List spec to say
I would recommend it for our committee and we should be cautious about
endorsing it, but in concept I would welcome having a standard.
Thanks
John
John Glaubitz
Vertex, Inc.
1041 Old Cassatt Rd.
Berwyn, PA 19312
john.glaubitz@vertexinc.com
Tel: +1 484 595-5877
"David RR Webber
(XML)"
<david@drrw.info> To
ram.kumar@oasis-open.org
04/16/2007 10:05 cc
PM Max Voskob
<max.voskob@paradise.net.nz>,
"Bruehlmeier,David"
<david.bruehlmeier@sap.com>, David
Bruehlmeier
<typo3@bruehlmeier.com>,
ciq@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject
RE: [ciq] Use of OASIS code list
specs. in CIQ TC V3.0?
Ram,
Sorry I don't get it! "Represent a codelist" - but not suggest ones? I
think everyone knows what a codelist is and what it contains - so seems
rather redundant busy work. What is the value add here? I'd hate for
people to think that the "representation" is an actual codelist. That was
the huge potential whammy I warned about before to them. Production
codelists need to be machine optimized - not volumous bulky xml padding
metadata heavy items.
I'd rather point people at ISO and machine processable examples - than top
heavy metadata about codelists.
Just my preference.
We've seen way to many very bad XML practices become instutionalized into
production code because of this failure for people to see the difference -
and I hate to set this up to be another instance of confusion.
This stuff makes me nervous. Care needed!
Thanks, DW
"The way to be is to do" - Confucius (551-472 B.C.)
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [ciq] Use of OASIS code list specs. in CIQ TC V3.0?
From: Ram Kumar <ram.kumar@oasis-open.org>
Date: Mon, April 16, 2007 5:05 pm
To: "David RR Webber (XML)" <david@drrw.info>
Cc: Max Voskob <max.voskob@paradise.net.nz>, "Bruehlmeier,David"
<david.bruehlmeier@sap.com>, David Bruehlmeier <typo3@bruehlmeier.com>,
ciq@lists.oasis-open.org
David,
No, we do not want to tell then what codelists they can use. The
suggestion is whether to use the XML schema provided
by Code list group to "represent" the code lists. The codelists could be
industry ones or specific ones of the users. But they
should be represented using the codelist representation schema provided
by Codelist group. This is my thought. A way of
representing the codelists using an industry standard.
Ram
David RR Webber (XML) wrote:
> Ram,
>
> So the idea is to suggest some codelists that can be used? E.g. the
> ISO country codes and W3C language codes?
>
> So the use case is just "hinting" for implementers?
>
> DW
>
> "The way to be is to do" - Confucius (551-472 B.C.)
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [ciq] Use of OASIS code list specs. in CIQ TC V3.0?
> From: Ram Kumar <ram.kumar@oasis-open.org>
> Date: Mon, April 16, 2007 4:39 pm
> To: "David RR Webber (XML)" <david@drrw.info>
> Cc: Ram Kumar <kumar.sydney@gmail.com>, Max Voskob
> <max.voskob@paradise.net.nz>, "Bruehlmeier,David"
> <david.bruehlmeier@sap.com>, David Bruehlmeier
> <typo3@bruehlmeier.com>, ciq@lists.oasis-open.org
>
> Right David. They do not describe the codelists (e.g. country
codes,
> etc...).
> The define the metadata to use the codelists. So, I was
wondering whether
> we need to use this metadata schema in CIQ to ensure consistent
use of
> codelists by users.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ram
> From San Diego, OASIS Symposium
>
> David RR Webber (XML) wrote:
> > Ram,
> >
> > Now I'm confused. They explicitly say in their charter that
they are
> > NOT doing that.
> >
> > If this has been reversed - then its a very bad issue.
> >
> > I think this may be confusing here however. The schema may be
to
> > describe metadata about the codelists - NOT the actual codelists
> > themselves.
> >
> > DW
> >
> > "The way to be is to do" - Confucius (551-472 B.C.)
> >
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: Re: [ciq] Use of OASIS code list specs. in CIQ TC
V3.0?
> > From: "Ram Kumar" <kumar.sydney@gmail.com <#Compose>>
> > Date: Mon, April 16, 2007 1:59 pm
> > To: "David RR Webber (XML)" <david@drrw.info <#Compose>>
> > Cc: "Max Voskob" <max.voskob@paradise.net.nz <#Compose>>,
"Bruehlmeier,David"
> > <david.bruehlmeier@sap.com <#Compose>>, "David Bruehlmeier"
> > <typo3@bruehlmeier.com <#Compose>>,
ciq@lists.oasis-open.org <#Compose>
> >
> > David,
> >
> > The code list TC have defined an XML schema to represent
the code
> > lists. This
> > is what I was thinking about.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ram
> >
> >
> > On 4/17/07, *David RR Webber (XML)* <david@drrw.info
<#Compose>
> > <mailto:david@drrw.info <#Compose>>> wrote:
> >
> > Ram,
> >
> > My understanding is that the codelists spec's are merely
> > guidelines. There are NO formal XML formats.
> >
> > Therefore - in terms of CIQ schema - I'd say there is
probably
> > "no action needed".
> >
> > Notice however that implementers using CIQ may use
codelists -
> > typically ISO ones for country codes, language codes, and
> > such, and then in-country postal authorities for ZIP and
> > postal codes, etc.
> >
> > I believe that the OASIS code list spec's make
reference to
> > just such "authoritative domain sources" (as does
OASIS BCM) -
> > and hence - so long as CIQ is providing the means to
support
> > those - I'm not sure there is more to be done at this
point -
> > except note that the OASIS codelist guidelines can be
> > referenced in support of CIQ.
> >
> > Certainly I'd not anticipate any schema changes for
V3.0 CIQ.
> >
> > In OASIS CAM we have an <Extension> mechanism for
handling
> > codelists - and for the UBL samples of CAM templates we
> > provide samples of various ISO and W3C codelist values
lookups
> > to illustrate the techniques. Those lookups are actually
> > against the CIQ v2 schema content inside UBL of
course! Same
> > thing for OASIS EML and their CIQ imports. We could
point
> > people at those UBL examples for samples of using
codelists
> > and CIQ -
http://xml.coverpages.org/freeb-ubl-Announce.html
> >
> > Cheers, DW
> >
> > "The way to be is to do" - Confucius (551-472 B.C.)
> >
> >
> >
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: [ciq] Use of OASIS code list specs. in
CIQ TC
> V3.0?
> > From: "Ram Kumar" < kumar.sydney@gmail.com <#Compose>
> > <mailto:kumar.sydney@gmail.com <#Compose>>>
> > Date: Mon, April 16, 2007 12:31 pm
> > To: ciq@lists.oasis-open.org <#Compose>
> <mailto:ciq@lists.oasis-open.org <#Compose>>
> > Cc: "Max Voskob" <max.voskob@paradise.net.nz
<#Compose>
> > <mailto:max.voskob@paradise.net.nz <#Compose>>>,
"James Bryce Clark"
> > < jamie.clark@oasis-open.org <#Compose>
> > <mailto:jamie.clark@oasis-open.org <#Compose>>>,
"Mary McRae"
> > <mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org <#Compose>
> > <mailto:mary.mcrae@oasis-open.org <#Compose>>>,
"Bruehlmeier, David"
> > <david.bruehlmeier@sap.com <#Compose>
> > <mailto:david.bruehlmeier@sap.com <#Compose>>>,
"David Bruehlmeier"
> > < typo3@bruehlmeier.com <#Compose>
<mailto:typo3@bruehlmeier.com <#Compose>>>
> >
> > CIQ TC,
> >
> > Just wondering whether we should implement OASIS
CODE LIST
> > V1.0 specs (to be released in May 2007)
> > as part of V3.0 CIQ Specs given that we have not yet
> > released V3.0 for public review.
> >
> > Please let me know your views
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Ram
> > Chair
> >
> >
>
> --
> Ram Kumar
> Manager - Technical Committee Development
> OASIS
> Post Office Box 455
> Billerica,MA 0821
> USA
> +61 412 758 025 (Direct)
> + 1 978 667 5115 (OASIS HQ)
> + 1 978 667 5114 (Fax)
> ram.kumar@oasis-open.org <#Compose>
> http://www.oasis-open.org <http://www.oasis-open.org/>
> "Advancing e-Business Standards Since 1993"
>
>
>
--
Ram Kumar
Manager - Technical Committee Development
OASIS
Post Office Box 455
Billerica,MA 0821
USA
+61 412 758 025 (Direct)
+ 1 978 667 5115 (OASIS HQ)
+ 1 978 667 5114 (Fax)
ram.kumar@oasis-open.org
http://www.oasis-open.org
"Advancing e-Business Standards Since 1993"
[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]