RE: [codelist-comment] The basic structure of the lists

[<martin.me.roberts@bt.com>]

Hi,
  Its more important than just having another 'active' format.

  If you use a format that is open as your defining structure how can you verify any list as being syntactically correct as the crucial data is held inside tags and attributes and not as attribute names or tag names.

 As a user of lists I want to know that if I process them into an active format such as those used by CAM that I get the complete set of data, a simple spelling mistake inside a list attribute would not fail the extract but would mean the resultant list is incorrect.


Martin Roberts



-----Original Message-----
From: Eckenfels. Bernd [mailto:B.Eckenfels@seeburger.de] 
Sent: 18 May 2007 14:31
To: David RR Webber (XML); Roberts,MME,Martin,XMM R
Cc: codelist-comment@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [codelist-comment] The basic structure of the lists

Yes, call it "Interchange Format" and highlite the Importance for Tooling.

Greetings
Bernd
 

-----Original Message-----
From: David RR Webber (XML) [mailto:david@drrw.info]
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 3:18 PM
To: martin.me.roberts@bt.com
Cc: codelist-comment@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [codelist-comment] The basic structure of the lists

Martin,
 
A further issue here is what I previously STRONGLY warned would happen - and I see that it is indeed happening.
 
I was assured that the genericode format would be only a reference semantic information model and that it WOULD NOT be promoted as a runtime format for actual operational codelists.  It clearly is ill-suited to actual operational use as both you Martin and Tony have noted already.
 
OASIS and the TC needs to take strong steps in EVERY announcement on availability and releases that these genericode formats are NOT designed to be used as operational codelists - only reference sets to the semantics that can be used in operational codelists that implementers should derive from them.
 
As a way of example - the shipping port codes genericode is a HUGE multi-megabyte file, even compressed as a ZIP.
 
A production extract from that in an optimized format - as you Martin allude to - and such as OASIS CAM uses - can produce fine-grained lookup lists from that in the order of 10k to 100k in size - depending on application use needs.
 
I feel obliged to say this again - at all costs here we should stop misleading people into thinking genericode is a production codelist format - and re-state for them that they are solely reference semantic lists of codes.

I would ask that a large an prominent WARNING comment statement is placed at the top of each genericode instance so that people understand the intent.
 
Thanks, DW

"The way to be is to do" - Confucius (551-472 B.C.)



 -------- Original Message --------
Subject: [codelist-comment] The basic structure of the lists
From: martin.me.roberts@bt.com
Date: Fri, May 18, 2007 6:24 am
To: <codelist-comment@lists.oasis-open.org>

Hi,
 As a person who would need to convert the lists to be used by other applications, I have some concerns over the structure of the lists in terms of the XML.
 
 In order to get values from any list the xpath required would need to be complex in terms of looking for an appropriate attribute that given that name of the value and then fetching the value from a related element.
 
 This gives you a flexible structure for defining data but it does not allow schemas to provide validation of content or for applications to easily pickout the required data.
 
 I would have prefered the use of something like 
 
 <Value>
 <numericode>1</numericode>
 </Value>
 
 Rather than
 
 <Value type="numericode">1</Value> (yes I know this is not an exact example from the document)
 
 
 The later form would not be able to be validated by a schema and therefore it would be possible to have the word numericode spelt incorrectly and the list would be broken. There are tools which can help in this kind of thing (CAM, Schematron) but it would be better to have a structure that made the best use of native XML rather than this current open schema approach.
 
 One was round the need to allow flexibility of the names for value types would be to have a schema structure that others could use to define elements that could become legitimate children of the value or row structures. 
 
 
 Martin Roberts
 
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Anthony B. Coates (Miley Watts) [mailto:abcoates@mileywatts.com]
 Sent: 18 May 2007 11:12
 To: Comments to OASIS Code List Representation TC
 Subject: [codelist-comment] Committee draft of genericode 1.0 does not support xml:base
 
 The committee draft of genericode 1.0 does not support xml:base. It should be modified to do so. The difficulty is that genericode documents potentially contain two kinds of URLs:
 
 1. those used as URIs to identify code lists, etc.; 2. those used as suggested locations for retrieving other documents.
 
 The appropriate bases for these two groups may sometimes be the same, but certainly won't always be the same. As such, a choice needs to be made about which group to which to apply xml:base. It is recommended that the second group of URLs, location URLs, are the ones to which xml:base applies. Additionally, the spec should be tightened to say that canonical URIs (for identifying code lists and their versions,
 etc.) must be absolute URIs and not relative URIs.
 
 Cheers, Tony.
 --
 Anthony B. Coates
 Senior Partner
 Miley Watts LLP
 Experts In Data
 +44 (79) 0543 9026
 Data standards participant: genericode, ISO 20022 (ISO 15022 XML), UN/CEFACT, MDDL, FpML, UBL.
 http://www.mileywatts.com/
 
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