RE: [cti-cybox] A new Forum Object

["Jason Keirstead" <Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com>]

I dunno about that...

- There have been a heck of a lot of drive-by downloads distributed via forum posts. Forum posts distribute malware just as much as email.

- The incredible majority of malware delivered via email is not specifically targeted.

-
Jason Keirstead
STSM, Product Architect, Security Intelligence, IBM Security Systems
www.ibm.com/security | www.securityintelligence.com

Without data, all you are is just another person with an opinion - Unknown


Patrick Maroney ---06/17/2016 02:59:28 PM---My .02: There are very distinct differences between an email message and a forum post. Starting wit

From: Patrick Maroney <Pmaroney@Specere.org>
To: Terry MacDonald <terry.macdonald@cosive.com>, Jason Keirstead/CanEast/IBM@IBMCA
Cc: "cti-cybox@lists.oasis-open.org" <cti-cybox@lists.oasis-open.org>, "Rich Piazza" <rpiazza@mitre.org>
Date: 06/17/2016 02:59 PM
Subject: RE: [cti-cybox] A new Forum Object

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My .02:

There are very distinct differences between an email message and a forum post.  Starting with the header meta-data and intent.  For example, as an attacker I send a malicious weaponized email to 1200 very specific targets.  These individual emails, targets, along with all of the other email meta-data are completely different from a forum post.  Of course a forum post may be created and/or further disemminated by an email message, but these all represent distinct objects, acts, and ponts in time.

Patrick Maroney
President
Integrated Networking Technologies, Inc.
Desk: (856)983-0001
Cell: (609)841-5104
Email: pmaroney@specere.org




On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 9:57 AM -0400, "Jason Keirstead" <Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com> wrote:

Maybe I am "old school" from the days of NNTP boards and what-not - but the difference between an email message and a newsgroup AKA Forum post is actually very small to me.

There's a reason it is so easy to create a forum from a mailing list and vice-versa (like Nabble).... its really more a protocol difference than a difference in the message contents. Both are messages that come from an entity that are addressed to one or more other entities, which have headers and which may or may not have other attachments to the message. The fact that one is delivered via SMTP and the other via NNTP or the Web is a protocol nuance, not a property of the message, IMO.

-
Jason Keirstead
STSM, Product Architect, Security Intelligence, IBM Security Systems
www.ibm.com/security | www.securityintelligence.com

Without data, all you are is just another person with an opinion - Unknown


Terry MacDonald ---06/16/2016 06:43:06 PM---My problem with putting this under message is that a forum post doesn't go anywhere. It's a post on

From: Terry MacDonald <terry.macdonald@cosive.com>
To: Jason Keirstead/CanEast/IBM@IBMCA
Cc: Rich Piazza <rpiazza@mitre.org>, cti-cybox@lists.oasis-open.org
Date: 06/16/2016 06:43 PM
Subject: RE: [cti-cybox] A new Forum Object

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My problem with putting this under message is that a forum post doesn't go anywhere. It's a post on a forum. It is accessed at a certain time, and at that point it's a message, by that should be captured in a network connection object somehow.

Cheers
Terry MacDonald
Cosive

On 17/06/2016 5:03 AM, "Jason Keirstead" <Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com> wrote:

Or maybe *I* am not up to date :)

But I will say, if people think at any time in the future we will want all these types of messages (like forum post), it doesn't make sense to make an EmailMessage object... once you make a object it is going to be really hard to get rid of.

-
Jason Keirstead
STSM, Product Architect, Security Intelligence, IBM Security Systems
www.ibm.com/security | www.securityintelligence.com

Without data, all you are is just another person with an opinion - Unknown


"Piazza, Rich" ---06/16/2016 03:40:05 PM---That's described in the "playground" - I was under the impression that we weren't going with the Mes

From: "Piazza, Rich" <rpiazza@mitre.org>
To: Jason Keirstead/CanEast/IBM@IBMCA
Cc: "cti-cybox@lists.oasis-open.org" <cti-cybox@lists.oasis-open.org>, "Terry MacDonald" <terry.macdonald@cosive.com>
Date: 06/16/2016 03:40 PM
Subject: RE: [cti-cybox] A new Forum Object


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That’s described in the “playground” – I was under the impression that we weren’t going with the Message abstraction object (see Ivan’s comment), but maybe I’m not up to date with the current thinking…
From: Jason Keirstead [mailto:Jason.Keirstead@ca.ibm.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 2:34 PM
To: Piazza, Rich <rpiazza@mitre.org>
Cc: cti-cybox@lists.oasis-open.org; Terry MacDonald <terry.macdonald@cosive.com>
Subject: RE: [cti-cybox] A new Forum Object

Email is also an extension to the Message object though.

There is currently a Message object with extensions for SMS, Email, Skype, and Attachment in the Playground:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1P6k0uqbAYDRpYG5jjgYAKBDEc_iSG0-SGFaXgaPkqyg/edit

-
Jason Keirstead
STSM, Product Architect, Security Intelligence, IBM Security Systems
www.ibm.com/security | www.securityintelligence.com

Without data, all you are is just another person with an opinion - Unknown


"Piazza, Rich" ---06/16/2016 03:07:33 PM---Did you mean the Email Message object? From: cti-cybox@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:cti-cybox@lists.

From: "Piazza, Rich" <rpiazza@mitre.org>
To: Jason Keirstead/CanEast/IBM@IBMCA, Terry MacDonald <terry.macdonald@cosive.com>
Cc: "cti-cybox@lists.oasis-open.org" <cti-cybox@lists.oasis-open.org>
Date: 06/16/2016 03:07 PM
Subject: RE: [cti-cybox] A new Forum Object

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Did you mean the Email Message object?
From: cti-cybox@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:cti-cybox@lists.oasis-open.org] On Behalf Of Jason Keirstead
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2016 9:36 AM
To: Terry MacDonald <terry.macdonald@cosive.com>
Cc: cti-cybox@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [cti-cybox] A new Forum Object

This seems to me like it should be an extension to the Message object, not its own object.

-
Jason Keirstead
STSM, Product Architect, Security Intelligence, IBM Security Systems
www.ibm.com/security | www.securityintelligence.com

Without data, all you are is just another person with an opinion - Unknown


Terry MacDonald ---06/16/2016 10:33:15 AM---Hi All, For the 3rd time someone recently asked me if there was a way of encoding

From: Terry MacDonald <terry.macdonald@cosive.com>
To: cti-cybox@lists.oasis-open.org
Date: 06/16/2016 10:33 AM
Subject: [cti-cybox] A new Forum Object
Sent by: <cti-cybox@lists.oasis-open.org>

---






Hi All,

For the 3rd time someone recently asked me if there was a way of encoding web forum posts within CybOX. My reply...well not really. That answer bothered me greatly, so with the help of AJ from EclecticIQ I put together a Forum Object.

The Forum Object is designed to record web forum and newsgroup posts, and is aimed primarily at helping people record what is being discussed on underground forums.

I really think it is needed for CybOX 3.0 MVP personally, and a couple of friends at very large organizations have also confirmed they would find this very useful. In fact one was surprised that it wasn't there already.
1.1 Forum Object

Type Name: forum-object

Status: Draft MVP: Yes


The Forum Object represents a single Forum post. It is used to capture posts on newsgroups and web forums, primarily to enable the sharing of conversations held between threat actors on underground forums.
Properties

CybOX Object Properties
id, type
Property Name	Type	Description
type (inherited from cybox-object)	string	Indicates that this object is a CybOX Forum Object. The value of this field MUST be forum-object.
url (optional)	string	Specifies the url of the forum.
forum-name(required)	string	Specifies the name of the forum.
room-name(optional)	string	Specifies the room-name within the forum.
thread-title	string	Specifies the thread-title within the forum.
post-creator	string	Specifies the identity of the forum post creator.
post-details	string	Specifies the full details of the forum post.

Examples
Underground forum post


{
"type": "forum-object",
"id": "forum-object--1",
"url": "https://www.cardz4cheap.org/cardsforsale/5332113",
"forum-name": "Cardz4cheap",
"room-name": "Cards for sale",
"thread-title": "Happy Burger Cards",
"post-creator": "DeliteD",
"post-details": "Hey Dudes, I got 1500 cards for sale real cheap."
}



Cheers

Terry MacDonald | Chief Product Officer



M: +61-407-203-026
E: terry.macdonald@cosive.com
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