RE: [dita-learningspec] Groups - DITA learning SC

Subject: RE: [dita-learningspec] Groups - DITA learning SC - discussion about content topics added

greetings,

first, my apologies for not closely appreciating and analyzing the dita learning models during our summer 07 discussions as closely as when i dissected them (and the spec) while transposing the learning models into s1000d during the fall.

so to continue with the spec cleanup/review discussion:

1. i read through http://docs.oasis-open.org/dita/v1.1/OS/archspec/topicover.html. i agree with everything documented. however, i am not picking up on any language that would preclude inserting "%learningContent-info-types;" in the <learningContentBody>. So...why not the following...?

<!ELEMENT learningContentbody ((%lcIntro;)?, (%lcDuration;)?,(%lcObjectives;)?, (%learningContent-info-types;), (%lcChallenge;)?,(%lcInstruction;)?,(%section;)*) >

(caveats for above: 1) (%lcIntro;)?, (%lcDuration;)?,(%lcObjectives;)? ought to be in a <learningContentHead> wrapper to have symmetry with <learningContentBody>; 2) Still tend to think challenge and instruction ought to be reversed.)

2. i have agreed all along that concept-task-reference ought to form the heart of <learningContent>. <learningContent> is a topic. i am not sure why concept-task-reference would require a "specialization" if in <learningContentBody>. the beauty of concept-task-reference is they can be applied to any subject matter that is developed in the form of a concept, task or reference. i would propse that the ironic strength in dita is that the concept-task-reference topic types could also serve as generic structures within a learning content topic. nesting concept-task-reference into <learningContentBody> is not necessarily "prohibited" by way of a technical block. it seems more like a philosophical prohibition. i have come to see the concept-task-reference models as flexible tools: by serving as topics in and of themselves and by serving as interior landscape models for a higher level topics....in this case...learning.

wayne

Hi Wayne (and to the rest of the learningspec list),

Here are some places to start in the DITA Architecturual Spec 1.1 -

DITA Topics - http://docs.oasis-open.org/dita/v1.1/OS/archspec/topicover.html

and the links from that to What are topics?, Why topics?, and Generic topics.

and then in Generic topics, the links to Topic structure and Topic content.

And I see the key considerations for us as these:

- we can specialize task, concept, reference to add the learning-specific elements, and keep all content in the body. But then we introduce a requirement that in order to deliver content as learning, you must use a learning-specific content topic. From our extensive discussions in the sub-committee, we concluded that concept, task, and reference did not need additional specialization for learning.

- if we decide not to specialize task, concept, and reference (which is what we did decide!), then the way to include tasks, concepts, references, (and other more specialized content types) is to a) include them in the map, or b) include them as nested topics inside the learningContent topic, after the learningContentBody.

and see the samples we discussed here - http://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/LearningContent/LearningContentTopicSamples.

John
___________________________________
John Hunt
DITA Architect / Lotus Information Development Center
Chair, OASIS DITA learning and training content sub-committee
IBM Software Group/Lotus Software
phone: 617.245.8053
john_hunt@us.ibm.com

From:	"Wayne Gafford" <gaffordw@adlnet.org>
To:	<john_hunt@us.ibm.com>
Date:	01/25/2008 11:55 AM
Subject:	RE: [dita-learningspec] Groups - DITA learning SC - discussion about content topics added

hey there

you mentioned on the concall that it is in the technical nature of dita that prevents the concept-task-ref topic types from being part of the <learningContentBody> content model. where is this stated in the spec...errr/or....what language in the spec prevents this? trying to get a better appreciation of the issue through what i can read directly from the spec.

wayne

From: john_hunt@us.ibm.com [mailto:john_hunt@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Fri 1/25/2008 11:07 AM
To: dita-learningspec@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [dita-learningspec] Groups - DITA learning SC - discussion about content topics added

DITA learning SC - discussion about content topics has been added by John Hunt

Date: Monday, 28 January 2008
Time: 11:00am - 12:00pm ET

Event Description:
Telecon - 866-880-0098, pcode 6396088

Agenda:
Let's have a follow-up conversation about the issues Wayne raised about the learning content topic.

Telecon - 866-880-0098, pcode 6396088

And web conference info below, if we find that useful to show-n-tell.

Some useful references for background:

Learning Content type summary - http://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/LearningContent/LearningContentTopicType

Learning Content and nested topics examples - http://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/LearningContent/LearningContentTopicSamples

Minutes from our July 12 meeting on this topic - http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita-learningspec/email/archives/200707/msg00017.html

JOIN THE WEB CONFERENCE

1) Join the conference up to 20 minutes prior to 11:00 AM at 1/28/2008
2) Direct your web browser to the following URL: http://www.ibm.com/collaboration/webconferences/center/meetingdetails.jsp?meetingId=8A1BA47C60FA5BCC61941E7F1D4D13F7
3) When prompted, enter the web conference password: dita2learn

Minutes:

View event details:
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita-learningspec/event.php?event_id=17778

PLEASE NOTE: If the above link does not work for you, your email
application may be breaking the link into two pieces. You may be able to
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