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Subject: Re: [dita-translation] RE: Revised version of the Acronym/Glossary Proposal
Hi everyone, I just had a chat with Bruce and will resolve the confusion with Eric and we will get back to you asap. I personally do not think that "surface forms" should be headwords in glossaries because they can take all kinds of different actual forms (including prepending of articles and so forth) and were intended for inline prose expressions of the term. But I will get back to you once I've clarified with Eric. Sorry for any confusion. Kara Warburton IBM Terminology 905-413-2170 IBM Intranet links: Terminology WIKI: https://w3.webahead.ibm.com/w3ki/display/IBMterm/Home IBM terminology: http://w3.ibm.com/standards/terminology Terminology blog: http://blogs.tap.ibm.com/weblogs/page/kara@ca.ibm.com "Ogden, Jeff" <jogden@ptc.com> To 28/01/2008 04:18 "Erik Hennum" <ehennum@us.ibm.com>, PM Kara Warburton/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA cc <bruce.esrig@gmail.com>, <dita-translation@lists.oasis-open. org>, "Bruce Esrig" <esrig@alumni.princeton.edu>, "JoAnn Hackos" <joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com>, Michael Priestley/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA, "Rodolfo M. Raya" <rmraya@maxprograms.com>, "Robert D Anderson" <robander@us.ibm.com> Subject [dita-translation] RE: Revised version of the Acronym/Glossary Proposal If we are talking about output rendering for the glossary as rather than resolving an abbreviation reference, I submit that that is entirely an output processing issue that can be customized and that the DITA specification should not require any specific behavior. The spec may suggest optional output behavior, but since it isn?t required it doesn?t matter much at this stage. So I am happy to push forward with the proposal as it is, as long as we think it says the right things about how abbreviations are resolved. And I haven?t heard any problems on that front. But having said the above, it sounds as if Kara thinks ?emit? should be ?omit? and Eric wrote ?emit? deliberately because he thought that would be a reasonable thing to do. -Jeff From: Erik Hennum [mailto:ehennum@us.ibm.com] Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 4:09 PM To: Kara Warburton Cc: bruce.esrig@gmail.com; dita-translation@lists.oasis-open.org; Bruce Esrig; JoAnn Hackos; Ogden, Jeff; Michael Priestley; Rodolfo M. Raya; Robert D Anderson Subject: Re: Revised version of the Acronym/Glossary Proposal Hi, Bruce and Kara: Given that we've extended the deadline by a month to hammer out a merged terminology proposal, I'd request that we worry only about inaccuracies and not about infelicities in phrasing. The proposal itself is an important step toward the specification, which has to integrate all of these proposals. I think we've specified that processes should emit the surface form in contexts where the user might not be familiar with the term. So, the question is whether the glossary would count as one of those contexts. In the standard example: Term: Antilock Brake System Acronym: ABS Surface form: Antilock Brake System (ABS) Would the user who has seen "ABS" on some page more easily recognize a glossary listing as "Antilock Brake System" or as "Antilock Brake System (ABS)"? If we think the former is better, maybe we can just mention that errata to the TC tomorrow rather than asking the Technical Committee to restart their review. Thanks, Erik Hennum ehennum@us.ibm.com (Embedded image moved to file: pic02343.gif)Inactive hide details for Kara Warburton <KARA@CA.IBM.COM>Kara Warburton <KARA@CA.IBM.COM> Kara Warburton <KARA@CA.IBM.COM> (Embedded image moved to file: pic24057.gif) 01/28/2008 12:35 PM To (Embedded image moved to file: pic27728.gif) "Bruce Esrig" <esrig@alumni.princeton.edu> (Embedded image moved to file: pic19870.gif) cc (Embedded image moved to file: pic18027.gif) bruce.esrig@gmail.com, Erik Hennum/Oakland/IBM@IBMUS, "JoAnn Hackos" <joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com>, "Ogden, Jeff" <jogden@ptc.com>, Michael Priestley <mpriestl@CA.IBM.COM>, "Rodolfo M. Raya" <rmraya@maxprograms.com>, Robert D Anderson/Rochester/IBM@IBMUS, <dita-translation@lists.oasis-open.org> (Embedded image moved to file: pic01911.gif) Subject (Embedded image moved to file: pic32163.gif) Re: Revised version of the Acronym/Glossary Proposal (Embedded image moved to file: pic18986.gif) (Embedded image moved to file: pic13836.gif) Hi Bruce, Thanks, I hadn't noticed this! I think it was a typo..... "emit" should have been "omit". Robert, could you change the sentence: A glossary publishing process should emit the surface form for the term. to what I propose in the attached file (I'm attaching it to avoid corruption by e-mail clients). This new content also addresses Bruce's suggestion that we mention glossary output formats. Perhaps you should put this in the section "Usage for glossary publishing". (See attached file: abs.txt) May I also suggest that you change the term "translation workbench" to "computer assisted translation environment" (several occurrences). That is the more standard term and some people may not know exactly what you are talking about with "workbench". Thanks and best regards, Kara Warburton IBM Terminology 905-413-2170 IBM Intranet links: Terminology WIKI: https://w3.webahead.ibm.com/w3ki/display/IBMterm/Home IBM terminology: http://w3.ibm.com/standards/terminology Terminology blog: http://blogs.tap.ibm.com/weblogs/page/kara@ca.ibm.com "Bruce Esrig" <esrig@alumni.pri nceton.edu> To Sent by: Kara Warburton/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA bruce.esrig@gmail cc .com "Erik Hennum" <ehennum@us.ibm.com>, "JoAnn Hackos" <joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com>, 28/01/2008 02:19 "Ogden, Jeff" <jogden@ptc.com>, PM Michael Priestley/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA, "Rodolfo M. Raya" <rmraya@maxprograms.com>, "Robert D Anderson" <robander@us.ibm.com> Subject Re: Revised version of the Acronym/Glossary Proposal > A glossary publishing process should emit the surface form for the term. This appears under "Rendition of abbreviated forms". The same text is carried forward in the version Robert just distributed. Bruce On 1/28/08, Bruce Esrig <esrig@alumni.princeton.edu> wrote: sorry, the quoted statement is from the HTML text of the proposal that Erik just circulated. Bruce On 1/28/08, Kara Warburton <KARA@ca.ibm.com> wrote: Bruce, I don't know where you got this. Something I said must have been misunderstood. The "surface form" is not published in glossaries. I'm not sure whether processing strategies for published glossaries should or should not be in the markup proposal. I'll let others comment on that. Kara Warburton IBM Terminology 905-413-2170 IBM Intranet links: Terminology WIKI: https://w3.webahead.ibm.com/w3ki/display/IBMterm/Home IBM terminology: http://w3.ibm.com/standards/terminology Terminology blog: http://blogs.tap.ibm.com/weblogs/page/kara@ca.ibm.com "Bruce Esrig" <esrig@alumni.pri nceton.edu> To Sent by: "Erik Hennum" <ehennum@us.ibm.com> bruce.esrig@gmail cc .com "JoAnn Hackos" <joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com>, "Ogden, Jeff" <jogden@ptc.com>, 28/01/2008 12:39 Kara Warburton/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA, PM Michael Priestley/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA, "Rodolfo M. Raya" <rmraya@maxprograms.com>, "Robert D Anderson" <robander@us.ibm.com> Subject Re: Revised version of the Acronym/Glossary Proposal Don't know whether this was caught on the call, but after my e-mail exchange with Kara and Robert last week, the following sentence seems oversimplified. I'll use brackets to suggest an addition. Perhaps I missed a statement elsewhere of this fallback behavior. > A glossary publishing process should emit the surface form for the term. [ If no surface form is provided, the glossterm should be emitted. ] Kara provided examples showing that the glossary publishing process could also emit a supporting entry for the acronym that refers to the full term. Is this mentioned / is the method for this explained in the proposal? Perhaps it is an existing mechanism. Best wishes, Bruce On 1/28/08, Erik Hennum <ehennum@us.ibm.com> wrote: Hi, JoAnn: Thanks very much for finding the time despite your schedule demands to take a review pass. Here's the formatted output: (See attached file: IssueGlossary12026_TSC.html) Erik Hennum ehennum@us.ibm.com (Embedded image moved to file: pic09507.gif)Inactive hide details for "JoAnn Hackos" <joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com>"JoAnn Hackos" < joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com> "JoAnn Hackos" < joann.ha (Embedded image moved to file: ckos@com pic11644.gif) tech-ser To v.com> (Embedded image moved to file: pic21553.gif) < 01/27/20 dita-translation@lists.oasis-open 08 07:57 .org>, "Rodolfo M. Raya" < AM rmraya@maxprograms.com>, "Bruce Esrig" <bruce.esrig@gmail.com> (Embedded image moved to file: pic18393.gif) cc (Embedded image moved to file: pic02253.gif) "Kara Warburton" < KARA@CA.IBM.COM >, Erik Hennum/Oakland/IBM@IBMUS, "Ogden, Jeff" <jogden@ptc.com>, "Michael Priestley" < mpriestl@CA.IBM.COM> (Embedded image moved to file: pic09340.gif) Subject (Embedded image moved to file: pic17804.gif) Revised version of the Acronym/Glossary Proposal (Embedded image moved to file: pic23995.gif) (Embedded image moved to file: pic29580.gif) Hello All: I have made minor changes to Erik's version of the acronym/glossary proposal and included one draft comment. See the addition of the comment about leaving an empty element in a translation. I added a sentence that suggests that translation software may generate an error in this case. The solution I suggest is to have the translator duplicate the <glossterm> in all instances including surface form and full form. I cannot take part in the Monday or Tuesday meetings of the translation SC or the DITA TC. ( I am teaching a workshop) Could I ask Gershon to represent the Translation SC at both meetings? Gershon, please let me know if you can chair a translation SC meeting to review the A/G proposal once more. I have not incorporated Bruce Esrig's rewording. I could also not process the HTML version because the version I opened of Erik's Arbortext content did not display any of the tables after the first. Have no idea why. JoAnn JoAnn T. Hackos, PhD President Comtech Services, Inc. 710 Kipling Street, Suite 400 Denver CO 80215 303-232-7586 joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com [attachment "IssueGlossary12026.dita" deleted by Erik Hennum/Oakland/IBM] [attachment "abs.txt" deleted by Erik Hennum/Oakland/IBM]
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