RE: [dita] indexing question

["Chris Wong" <cwong@idiominc.com>]

When you move images like that -- effectively converting them into end
notes -- you are  moving content out of the narrative flow. This is not
so much an indexing problem as it is a general DITA issue. What happens
when the processor rearranges narrative content -- which has an explicit
order -- in weird and wonderful ways? If an image is moved out of an
unordered list, should it still retain the original indent? Should a
footnote or keyword adjacent to such an image follow it to the end of
topic or should they remain in the narrative flow? If the image is
surrounded by a context that is tagged for conditional processing,
should that processing -- colors, flagging, vertical bars -- follow it?

I don't think this is a flaw in the DITA standard. Yanking content out
of a narrative flow where order is significant should not have to be a
practice that we have to define. Any processor that wants to do wierd
things is responsible for the semantics of those wierd things. We cannot
and should not decide every possible processing variant.

As for the Q 6 and 7 response below, we already have a prescribed
behavior for orphaned or misarranged index range pairs. It applies to
both maps and topics. I still don't see what the issue is.

Chris 

-----Original Message-----
From: Grosso, Paul [mailto:pgrosso@ptc.com] 
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 11:09 AM
To: dita@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [dita] indexing question

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Wong [mailto:cwong@idiominc.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, 2006 July 18 09:19
> To: Grosso, Paul; dita@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [dita] indexing question

> 
> 5 and 6: an index range is just a range: any content between two index

> range markers constitute the index range. An index range starts where 
> it starts and ends where it ends. That includes figures, part or whole

> paragraphs ... anything. That is the point of the index range marker, 
> that it can express index ranges in a manner orthogonal of the XML 
> structure. I don't see the ambiguity: why should anything NOT be in an

> index range if so delineated?

Suppose I have something like (pseudocode, not actual tagging used):

  start index range
  para1
  image
  para2
  end index range

Now suppose, because my stylesheet says all images get floated to the
end of the topic they are in, para1 starts on page 15, para2 ends on
page 16, and the image floats to page 22.

What index entry should be generated?  One with 15-16 for the page?
Or one with 15-16,22 for the page?

I see the ambiguity.

> 
> 7: I'd answer "yes": that seems the obvious interpretation. An index 
> range starts where it starts, and ends where it ends.

On questions 6 and 7, the issue here really is whether we want to allow
index ranges that are completely asynchronous to both the markup
structure and even the file structure.  It can be both a processing
problem as well as a debugging nightmare (for the user) if we allow such
asynchronicity.
Imagine a user mistakening switching index-range-start and
index-range-end (so the end comes before the start) in a topic and then
having an index range surrounding that topic in the map file.  If we
allow the "end"
within the topic to end to "start" in the map file, there will be no
errors, but the result is not going to be what the user wanted.

So one other obvious interpretation is that it is an error for an "end"
not in the map file to end a "start" in the map file.

paul 

> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Grosso, Paul [mailto:pgrosso@ptc.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 9:27 AM
> To: dita@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [dita] indexing question
> 

> 5.  Whereas a pointwise index term seems unambiguous--wherever it is,
> you index that--with ranges, you get into all sorts of questions about
> what is within the range.  If you put a para within an index range and
> within that para is a figure callout and that figure ends up 
> on another
> page, is that figure's page within the range or not?
> 
> 6.  What constitutes a start/end pair?  Can you start an index range
> between two paragraphs and then end it in the middle of a paragraph?  
> 
> Our proposal says "Index ranges that start within a topic must end in
> the same topic, excluding nested topics."  I assume that 
> means an index
> range can start outside a (nested) topic and end either within that
> topic or a further nested topic, is that correct?  
> 
> 7.  Regarding index page ranges specified within a map, can 
> one start an
> index range before topicref A and then end an index range 
> after topicref C where C is a child of A?