RE: [dita] Re: Discuss list processing expectations

[Robert D Anderson <robander@us.ibm.com>]

I'd second what Paul says - I know a lot of users who would get upset if
the spec told them they could not include the samples Paul gives inside a
single paragraph.

To respond to one of Gershon's samples -- I would tend to agree that having
something like this
   <p>This list says: <ul>...</ul>[punctuation]</p>
or this
   <p>This here is <pre>MARKUP</pre>[punctuation]</p>
with only punctuation after the block is never going to format in a good
way. I don't mind people calling that bad markup, and I do not know anybody
who uses it intentionally. However, it's a necessary evil to allow that in
the DTD if you also allow paragraphs like this one. The two variations
should not be given the same weight in a Best Practice statement.

Robert D Anderson
IBM Authoring Tools Development
Chief Architect, DITA Open Toolkit
(507) 253-8787, T/L 553-8787 (Good Monday & Thursday)

"Grosso, Paul" <pgrosso@ptc.com> wrote on 04/08/2008 09:01:54 AM:

> I agree with most of what Robert and Gershon said, though
> I have a minor disagreement with one point below.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gershon L Joseph [Yahoo] [mailto:gljoseph@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, 2008 April 08 3:55
> > To: Robert D Anderson; DITA TC List
> > Subject: [dita] Re: Discuss list processing expectations
>
> > I think we
> > listed <ul> as a block element, so it should not be used as
> > an inline element.
>
> I agree that <ul> is block but...
>
> > I often find users marking up as follows:
> >
> > <p>In order to install Acme Pro Plus Plus, your system must
> > meet the following requirements:
> > <ul>
> >   <li>Pentium 4 CPU or later</li>
> >   <li>1 GB RAM or more</li>
> >   <li>At least 350 MB free disk space</li>
> > </ul>
> > </p>
> >
> > IMO, this should be marked up as follows, with the <ul> being
> > a following sibling of <p>, not a child of <p>:
> >
> > <p>In order to install Acme Pro Plus Plus, your system must
> > meet the following requirements:</p>
> > <ul>
> >   <li>Pentium 4 CPU or later</li>
> >   <li>1 GB RAM or more</li>
> >   <li>At least 350 MB free disk space</li>
> > </ul>
>
> ...I don't quite agree with Gershon here that lists shouldn't
> be allowed within paragraphs.  I know that HTML requires lists
> (and pre) to be outside paragraphs, but requiring that is
> semantically wrong.  Given that a paragraph is supposed to
> contain one logical thought (as we all probably learned back
> in elementary school), it doesn't make logical sense for a
> paragraph to end with a colon!
>
> Just like a display (block) equation can be in the middle of
> a paragraph (read any math text book or technical manual), it
> makes sense to allow a list or verbatim (aka "pre") block in
> the middle of a paragraph.  Note that you can't markup something
> like:
>
> <p>In order to install Acme Pro Plus Plus, your system must
> meet the following requirements:
> <ul>
>   <li>Pentium 4 CPU or later</li>
>   <li>1 GB RAM or more</li>
>   <li>At least 350 MB free disk space</li>
> </ul>
> unless you are running the Limited version of the product.
> </p>
>
> properly unless you allow lists within paragraphs since it
> would make no sense to have the "unless..." part in a paragraph
> by itself, and if you did, and you were indenting your paragraphs,
> you'd get inappropriate indentation.  [Note that this very paragraph
> in this email logically started with "Just like..." and ends after
> this sentence and has a display code example within it; the part
> starting with "properly" is not logically a paragraph.]
>
> Given that HTML doesn't allow lists within paragraphs and we've
> all been living with that, I could live with the restriction
> Gershon suggests, but I don't see it as really being the right
> thing to do.
>
> paul
>
>
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