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Subject: RE: [dita] Proposal for Consideration: Default Behavior for List Items


I really don't understand this discussion.  

The proposed statement doesn't say how anything should be formatted. It
just says that the presence or absence of a <p> as the first element
within a list item doesn't necessarily imply a difference in how the
output should appear. It isn't a requirement.  The output can be
different, but in the absence of a good reason for the output to be
different, the statement encourages the output to be the same.  That is
it. Northing about formatting.  Nothing about translation.  Nothing new
about the allowed DITA markup.

The discussion seems to be going off in different directions that aren't
related to this.  What is good or poor markup.  What supports or doesn't
support translation.  We don't agree about those things. I think we need
to agree to disagree.  I think decisions about this markup were made in
the past and we can't really change them now, even if we agreed that we
wanted to. We can have this discussion again when we talk seriously
about DITA 2.0.

   -Jeff

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gershon L Joseph [Yahoo] [mailto:gljoseph@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 4:51 AM
> To: tself@hyperwrite.com; dita@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: [dita] Proposal for Consideration: Default Behavior for
List
> Items
> 
> I also feel this type of statement does not belong in the spec. If the
OT
> exhibits inconsistent behavior, the issue should be addressed to the
OT
> developers, not the TC. I prefer to remain silent on this particular
issue,
> since I agree that in this case the styling of these elements is
> implementation-specific.
> 
> Gershon
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Tony Self <tself@hyperwrite.com>
> > To: dita@lists.oasis-open.org
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 2:05:02 AM
> > Subject: RE: [dita] Proposal for Consideration: Default Behavior for
> List Items
> >
> > I agree with Paul. This might be a slippery slope, where the
standard is
> > expected to provide other default styling recommendations.
Stylesheet
> processing
> > belongs outside the standard. I think this recommendation belongs in
the
> OT.
> >
> > Tony Self
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Grosso, Paul [mailto:pgrosso@ptc.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, 15 April 2008 7:31 AM
> > To: dita@lists.oasis-open.org
> > Subject: RE: [dita] Proposal for Consideration: Default Behavior for
> List Items
> >
> > Why are we getting into details of styling in a semantic
> > markup language standard? DITA shouldn't dictate to a user
> > how their stylesheet has to work. If we put wording such
> > as Eliot's into the DITA standard, then we are telling
> > users that they non-compliant if they write a stylesheet
> > that styles
> Item text
> and
> Item text
> 
> > differently, and I know Eliot is not a fan of having a user's
> > control over their own data usurped by someone else.
> >
> > The DITA standard includes DTDs and XSDs, but it does
> > not include stylesheets, and it shouldn't. So why should
> > the spec include styling restrictions? If a user wants
> > to write a stylesheet, they should be allowed to have it
> > do anything they want. If implementors want to provide
> > stylesheets as part of their DITA offering, then what those
> > stylesheets do in terms of such things as paragraphs within
> > list items is a quality of implementation issue.
> >
> > paul
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Eliot Kimber [mailto:ekimber@reallysi.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, 2008 April 14 16:11
> > > To: dita@lists.oasis-open.org
> > > Subject: [dita] Proposal for Consideration: Default Behavior
> > > for List Items
> > >
> > > Per the action out of last week's meeting, I submit the following
> > > proposal for approval by the TC:
> > >
> > > "By default, the rendering of list items is not affected the
> > > presence or
> > > absence of an initial paragraph element such that the markup
> Item
> > > text
> and
> Item text
> should be visually
> > > indistinguishable, all other variables being the same."
> > >
> > > The
> and
> elements both provide a "compact=" attribute that
> > > indicates the desire for more or less space between list items.
> > >
> > > We also discussed the issue that IBM's pre-OASIS markup
> > > design for step
> > > lists had rules for determining if a given list of steps should be
> > > compact or not lead to not providing compact= on but
> > > that steps=
> > > should provide compact= (because that particular behavior was too
> > > specific and there is no way to override it in the current markup
> > > design). It was agreed that adding compact= to would
> > > not create
> > > any backward compatibility problems.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Eliot
> > >
> > > --
> > > Eliot Kimber
> > > Senior Solutions Architect
> > > "Bringing Strategy, Content, and Technology Together"
> > > Main: 610.631.6770
> > > www.reallysi.com
> > > www.rsuitecms.com
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
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