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Subject: RE: [dita] Action: Eliot on lockmeta updates


My question was whether the yes/no value applies only in the collision
cases, and @lockmeta takes effect only for a "Collision case" = "when a
given metadata value can only occur once and occurs in both the topic
and topicref metadata". You're suggesting that it applies in all cases.

	/Bruce 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ogden, Jeff [mailto:jogden@ptc.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 11:00 AM
> To: dita
> Cc: dita-help@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [dita] Action: Eliot on lockmeta updates 
> 
> But the only legal values for @lockmeta in DITA 1.0, 1.1, and 
> 1.2 are "yes" and "no". 
> 
> In DITA 1.3 it might be good to add synonyms of 
> "mapoverrides" for "no"
> and "topicoverrides" for "yes" and deprecate "yes" and "no".
> 
>    -Jeff
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bruce Nevin (bnevin) [mailto:bnevin@cisco.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 10:39 AM
> > To: tself@hyperwrite.com; ekimber; dita
> > Cc: dita-help@lists.oasis-open.org
> > Subject: RE: [dita] Action: Eliot on lockmeta updates
> > 
> > It sounds like the value of @lockmeta determines which 
> overrides the 
> > other when there is a collision. If the correct 
> interpretation is that 
> > one overrides the other only in the collision cases, then 
> it seems to 
> > me that the default is 'both' for the non-collision cases--that is, 
> > the union of the two sets of metadata, as Eliot says.
> > 
> > 	/Bruce
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Tony Self [mailto:tself@hyperwrite.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 7:28 AM
> > > To: 'ekimber'; 'dita'
> > > Cc: dita-help@lists.oasis-open.org
> > > Subject: RE: [dita] Action: Eliot on lockmeta updates
> > >
> > > Hi Eliot
> > >
> > > On the DITA Help Subcommittee, we've been discussing a metadata 
> > > element to contain context hooks for context-sensitive user 
> > > assistance (Help) applications. The element (we're calling it 
> > > ua-context) might be defined in either the map or the 
> topic. We've 
> > > realised we have a need for an attribute to specify whether a 
> > > context hook in the map takes precedence over a hook in 
> the topic, 
> > > as we could envisage scenarios where either would be a user 
> > > requirement.
> > > Our first cut of the name for this attribute was @yield-to-topic, 
> > > which would only be used in the map topicref topicmeta. 
> The default 
> > > would be false, meaning the map trumps the topic.
> > >
> > > An example of mark-up within a map's topicref topicmeta might be:
> > >
> > > <ua-context id="ab12" context-id="1234"
> context-string="idh_filesave"
> > >      yield-to-topic="true" />
> > >
> > > Reading your post about @lockmeta, it occurred to me that our 
> > > @yield-to-topic might be serving a similar purpose. From your 
> > > understanding of @lockmeta, do you think we could use it?
> > >
> > > Our latest discussions on the issue seem to indicate we 
> need three 
> > > "states"
> > > for our @yield-to-topic: true, false and both. The both setting 
> > > would mean that both topic and map context hooks would be 
> applied to 
> > > the output.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Tony Self
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ekimber [mailto:ekimber@reallysi.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 1 September 2009 2:18 PM
> > > To: dita
> > > Subject: [dita] Action: Eliot on lockmeta updates
> > >
> > > In thinking about what lockmeta is all about, I think the issue I 
> > > had was that the entry for topicmeta left a lot of things 
> implicit 
> > > that need to be made explicit.
> > >
> > > I think the architectural intent is that for a given 
> topicref to a 
> > > topic there is an effective <metadata> set that is the 
> union of the 
> > > topicref's metadata and the topic's metadata.
> > > The result of that union then becomes the effective metadata for 
> > > both the topicref and the topic, in that use context.
> > >
> > > The author decision is whether the topicref's or the topic's 
> > > metadata should take precedence when constructing the effective 
> > > value of the metadata.
> > >
> > > Per the current language of the topicmeta element definition:
> > >
> > > "Indicates whether any of the meta information should be 
> replaced by 
> > > meta information in the referenced topic. If the value is 
> yes, the 
> > > information inside <topicmeta> should not be replaced with 
> > > information from the topic."
> > >
> > > This means, I think, that when @lockmeta="yes", then the 
> topicref's 
> > > metadata takes precedence and when @lockmeta="no", the topic's 
> > > metadata takes precedence.
> > >
> > > What the current spec doesn't say is whether "yes" or "no" is the 
> > > default. I would expec the default to be "yes", namely that the 
> > > topicref's metadata takes precedence unless you say otherwise.
> > >
> > > If this understanding is correct, then the current 
> topicmeta topic 
> > > needs to be reworked to say this more or less as I have here. In 
> > > addition, the still-to-be-written topic on Attribute and metadata 
> > > inheritance in the Arch Spec needs to include a 
> discussion of this 
> > > behavior as well.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Eliot
> > >
> > > ----
> > > Eliot Kimber | Senior Solutions Architect | Really 
> Strategies, Inc.
> > > email:  ekimber@reallysi.com <mailto:ekimber@reallysi.com>
> > > office: 610.631.6770 | cell: 512.554.9368 2570 Boulevard of the 
> > > Generals | Suite 213 | Audubon, PA 19403 www.reallysi.com 
> > > <http://www.reallysi.com>  | http://blog.reallysi.com 
> > > <http://blog.reallysi.com> | www.rsuitecms.com 
> > > <http://www.rsuitecms.com>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > 
> > 
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