Su-Laine, I wouldn’t worry about your memory too much. I didn’t
quote all of the places the DITA 1.1 spec. only talks about filtering using
metadata elements. There are a bunch of those too.
I agree that the TC needs to decide how this should work and that
we should rewrite portions of the DITA spec. to reflect that decision, whatever
it is.
-Jeff
From: Su-Laine Yeo
[mailto:su-laine.yeo@justsystems.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 1:44 AM
To: Ogden, Jeff; seth.park@freescale.com; dita@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [dita] processor requirments w.r.t. metadata elements
Boy, is my
memory of what the spec says ever bad. I have to take this statement of mine
back:
"In its discussion of conditional processing it repeatedly refers to
attributes,and only attributes."
Sorry for the confusion. I'd forgotten what the spec actually says. But we
should make a decision about how to clarify the spec, because right now it
seems to be waving its arms but without prescribing things that processors
should handle in a standard way. It's good to know that the OT and Arbortext
Editor are working the same way.
Su-Laine
-----Original Message-----
From: Ogden, Jeff [mailto:jogden@ptc.com]
Sent: Mon 10/19/2009 6:36 PM
To: Su-Laine Yeo; seth.park@freescale.com; dita@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [dita] processor requirments w.r.t. metadata elements
When metadata elements and attributes may, should, or must be used has never
been completely clear to me based on what is said in the DITA 1.0 and 1.1
specifications, but these statements from the DITA 1.1 Architecture Spec. have
always left me with the impression that the elements and attributes were
equivalent and so should be able to be used interchangeably:
From the "Conditional Processing" section in Chapter 4 on "DITA
processing":
For a topic or topicref, the audience, platform, and product metadata can be
expressed with attributes on
the topic or topicref element or with elements within the topic prolog or
topicmeta element. While the
metadata elements are more expressive, the meaning of the values is the same,
and can be used in
coordination: for example, the prolog elements can fully define the audiences
for a topic, and then
metadata attributes can be used within the content to identify parts that apply
to only some of those
audiences.
The values from the enumerated attributes of the audience metadata element have
the same
meaning when used in the audience attribute of a content element. For instance,
the ?user? value
has the same meaning whether appearing in the type attribute of the audience
element for a topic
or in the audience attribute of a content element. The principle applies to the
type, job, and
experience level attributes of the audience element.
This attribute [platform] is equivalent to the platform element for the topic
metadata.
This attribute [product] is equivalent to the prodinfo element for the topic
metadata.
This attribute [otherprops] is equivalent to the othermeta element for the
topic metadata.
From the section on "Topic properties in topics and maps" in Chapter
3 on "DITA markup":
The properties of a topic (including metadata attributes and metadata elements)
can be specified in the
topic itself or in references to the topic within maps.
Within a topic, properties can be expressed using metadata attributes on the
topic element or using
publication, management, or metadata elements in the topic prolog.
Now having said this, Arbortext Editor doesn't allow filtering based on
metadata elements. But I've always thought that we should.
-Jeff
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Su-Laine Yeo [mailto:su-laine.yeo@justsystems.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 8:23 PM
> To: seth.park@freescale.com; dita@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [dita] processor requirments w.r.t. metadata elements
>
> The draft DITA 1.2 spec currently says: "Although metatdata elements
> exist with similar names, such as the <audience> element, processors
> are not required to perform conditional processing using metadata
> elements." This is new text (that I wrote) in an attempt to clarify
the
> situation for DITA users who often ask things like, "What is the
> difference between the <audience> element and the @audience
attribute?"
>
> The DITA 1.1 spec does not say anything about whether processors should
> apply conditional processing rules to metadata elements. In its
> discussion of conditional processing it repeatedly refers to attributes,
> and only attributes. Given this background, I think the new text just
> says explicitly what the DITA 1.1 spec implies by omission. The DITA OT
> has never done conditional processing using metadata elements.
>
> Having said that, even the proposed clarification may not give enough
> guidance. Consider the following questions:
> 1) If a processor only applies conditional processing on attributes and
> *never* applies them to metadata elements, is that a bug?
> 2) If a processor *always* applies conditional processing to both
> attributes and metadata elements, is that a bug?
>
> I would say no to the first, and yes to the second.
>
> Regards,
> Su-Laine
>
> Su-Laine Yeo
> Solutions Consultant
> JustSystems Canada, Inc.
> Office: 778-327-6356
> syeo@justsystems.com
> www.justsystems.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: seth.park@freescale.com [mailto:seth.park@freescale.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 4:27 PM
> To: dita@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: [dita] processor requirments w.r.t. metadata elements
>
> Is the statement "processors are not required to perform conditional
> processing using metadata elements" true?
>
> -author undisclosed
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