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Subject: RE: [dita] rubric for SC brainstorming
I like it. > -----Original Message----- > From: Jang F.M. Graat [mailto:jang@jang.nl] > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 2:41 PM > To: Bruce Nevin (bnevin) > Cc: dita@lists.oasis-open.org > Subject: Re: [dita] rubric for SC brainstorming > > Hello all, > > After listening / reading quietly for over a year, here's my > first 2 cents, about the disclaimer discussion: > > Being a minimalist at heart, I would use fewer words and > rephrase the disclaimer as follows: > > "This document reflects exploratory work. It is not a > reliable guide on the future direction of DITA. It should not > be taken as guidance for using DITA or for developing DITA tools." > > The fact that it is work by a subcommittee is irrelevant, as > exploratory papers may also be produced by the TC as a whole, > right ? > So leaving out the reference to the subcommittee makes the > statement useful for any exploratory document that might > emerge out of the DITA TC community. Also, the fact that it > is not endorsed or approved by the TC is irrelevant, as that > is not the nature of exploratory documents. They are meant to > be input for discussions, not proposals to be approved. Each > document will have some reference to the authorship, which > may be an individual TC or SC member or an SC or even the TC > as a whole. It can still be exploratory, and should not be > taken as definitive. That is all we're trying to state. So > leave out all the redundant and irrelevant information. > > Jang F.M. Graat > Travelling philosopher > www.jang.nl > > > On 20 okt 2010, at 18:23, Bruce Nevin (bnevin) wrote: > > > Re the added phrase: > > > >> and is not endorsed by the DITA Technical Committee as a whole > > > > We don't want it to sound like the TC disapproves of this work (or > > even of SC work in general). How about something like "has not yet > > been taken up as work of the Technical Committee as a whole"? That > > might look like > > this: > > > > "Because this document reflects exploratory work by a > subcommittee of > > the DITA Technical Committee, which has not yet been taken > up as work > > of the Technical Committee as a whole, it is not a reliable > guide as > > to the future direction of DITA, and should not be taken as > guidance > > for using DITA or for developing DITA tools." > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Michael Priestley [mailto:mpriestl@ca.ibm.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 10:01 AM > > To: Su-Laine Yeo > > Cc: dita@lists.oasis-open.org > > Subject: RE: [dita] rubric for SC brainstorming > > > > > > > > Sounds good to me. I'll add a quick thought for Michael B's > > question: > > > > > - refrain from presenting subcommittee work as > > an official OASIS > > >TC position in a public forum (webinar, conference, > white paper, > > etc) > > > > > >I still need clarification on the second issue, as my > understanding > > may > > >allow more exposure of the subcommittee work than the > TC would like. > > > > I think the key phrase there is "as an official TC > position". If it's > > presented as exploratory work to solicit feedback, I > personally don't > > see any problem with that. But if it's presented as established > > strategy or direction, that would be dangerously misleading. > > > > Michael Priestley, Senior Technical Staff Member (STSM) > > Lead IBM DITA Architect > > mpriestl@ca.ibm.com > > http://dita.xml.org/blog/25 <http://dita.xml.org/blog/25> > > > > > > > > From: "Su-Laine Yeo" <su-laine.yeo@justsystems.com> > > To: <dita@lists.oasis-open.org> > > Date: 10/19/2010 05:46 PM > > Subject: RE: [dita] rubric for SC brainstorming > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > Longer-term, I think we should move in the direction of having > > variety > > of standardized messages to display on documents to > indicate their > > level > > of official-ness and final-ness, and put a message on > every single > > document and web page that we make visible to the > public. I'm more > > concerned about the public finding the TC's outdated versions of > > technical proposals for DITA features than about the > public reading > > SC > > documents. Also, a lot of publicly-available content on OASIS's > > websites > > is simply the ideas of one or more individual TC > members and isn't > > even > > approved by a subcommittee, and that stuff needs > disclaimers most of > > all. But all that will require more mulling-over for a > later time. > > End > > of rant for now ;) > > > > For our immediate needs, I think the gist of Bruce's > suggestion is > > good, > > and suggest the following rewordings for clarity: > > > > "This document reflects exploratory work by a > subcommittee of the > > DITA > > Technical Committee and is not endorsed by the DITA Technical > > Committee > > as a whole. It is not a reliable guide as to the future > direction of > > DITA, and should not be taken as guidance for using DITA or for > > developing DITA tools." > > > > W.r.t. Michael's request for guidance on the second issue he > > described, > > I don't have any thoughts at this time, although I > appreciate the > > question. > > > > Cheers, > > Su-Laine > > > > Su-Laine Yeo > > Solutions Consultant > > JustSystems Canada, Inc. > > Office: 778-327-6356 > > syeo@justsystems.com > > > > XMetaL Community Forums: http://forums.xmetal.com > > <http://forums.xmetal.com/> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Michael Boses [mailto:mboses@QUARK.com > > <mailto:mboses@QUARK.com> ] > > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 8:33 AM > > To: Doug Morrison; dita@lists.oasis-open.org > > Subject: RE: [dita] rubric for SC brainstorming > > > > Doug, I see the point that many entities outside of the DITA TC > > provide > > guidance. I think the issue here is clarification that > subcommittees > > do > > not issue guidance. Official OASIS Guidance, when it > originates in a > > subcommittee, is the result of subcommittee > deliverables being vetted > > and incorporated into guidance by the parent committee. > > > > At least this is how I understand it as someone trying > to follow the > > rules as a subcommittee co-chair. There are two things > we have been > > asked to do: > > > > - place a caveat on our posts > indicating their status > > as not > > approved for implementation (It looks like Bruce's > wording achieves > > that). > > > > - refrain from presenting subcommittee > work as an > > official OASIS > > TC position in a public forum (webinar, conference, white paper, > > etc) > > > > I still need clarification on the second issue, as my > understanding > > may > > allow more exposure of the subcommittee work than the > TC would like. > > Presenting some of the ideas of our subcommittee is the > best way to > > vet > > them with the actual stakeholders in external organizations. We > > certainly can pass on that opportunity, but I need to > make sure that > > is > > the TC's intention. It may be that any public > presentations we make > > will > > need to include a disclaimer similar to the one we will > place on > > posts. > > > > Perhaps, Don, Michael, or others on the TC can clarify > if and how we > > handle informing the public on progress and obtaining feedback. > > > > Regards, > > > > Michael Boses > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Doug Morrison [mailto:dmorrison@dita4all.com > > <mailto:dmorrison@dita4all.com> ] > > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2010 11:07 AM > > To: dita@lists.oasis-open.org > > Subject: Re: [dita] rubric for SC brainstorming > > > > I think the final sentence "Such guidance is exclusively in the > > > > purview of the DITA Technical Committee" should be > dropped - because > > it > > is not true as it stands, and not necessary. > > > > Regards, > > > > Doug Morrison > > Information Architect > > http://dita4all.com <http://dita4all.com/> > > > > > > On 13/10/2010 15:33, Bruce Nevin (bnevin) wrote: > > > In yesterday's call, we talked about subcommittees > needing some > > kind > > of > > > cover for creative discussion and brainstorming so > that outside > > readers > > > of the discussion won't take it as guidance from the TC. The > > relevant > > > bit from the minutes (as amended to include Seth's name): > > > > > >> Seth Park: For DITA and composite environments, we > came up with > > >> a feature request that was technically not implementable. > > >> Is there a `code word' under which to talk in papers and > > >> not shut down creativity. > > >> MB: A standard disclaimer would be wonderful. > > >> Don, MP: Let's pursue that on the alias. > > > I imagine two aspects of a disclaimer, its content and its > > location. > > > > > > For example, on the title page or in a footnote on > the title or in > > a > > > note paragraph placed prominently on the first page (to be > > decided), a > > > subcommittee document might say something like: > > > > > > This paper reflects exploratory work by a > subcommittee of the DITA > > > Technical Committee. It is not a reliable guide as to > the future > > > direction of DITA, and should not be taken as guidance for > > implementing > > > or using DITA. Such guidance is exclusively in the > purview of the > > DITA > > > Technical Committee. > > > > > > Let the discussion begin! > > > > > > /B > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave > the OASIS TC > > that > > > generates this mail. Follow this link to all your > TCs in OASIS at: > > > > > > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > > > <https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.ph > > p > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the > OASIS TC that > > generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS > > at: > > > > > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > > > <https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.ph > > p > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the > OASIS TC that > > generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS > > at: > > > > > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > > > <https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.ph > > p > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the > OASIS TC that > > generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS > > at: > > > > > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > > > <https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.ph > > p > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the > OASIS TC that > > generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: > > > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > >
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