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Subject: RE: [dita] Question: Definition of "undefined key"
Case 2 has a key bound to an element within a topic, the topic is there,
but the identified element can't be found.
Eliot said:
> 3. Where the key reference includes an element ID
> component, if the key reference can be resolved
> (that is, the key component of a key/element-id
> pair) but the specified element isn't there, then
> the key reference is unresolvable.
Why is it unresolvable? Of the three ways that key references can fail
to resolve to a resource, the third clearly applies:
3. Where the key reference includes an element ID component, if the key
reference can be resolved (that is, the key component of a
key/element-id pair) but the specified element isn't there, then the key
reference is unresolvable.
In terms of processing, it cannot also be the case that (1) there is no
effective binding for the key at all, or (2) there is a binding for the
key but the resource to which it is bound cannot be accessed; because in
either of those cases processing could not have discovered that the
referenced element was missing and case (3) would never arise.
I suppose it's logically possible in some abstract universe for all
three to be the case at once, but if (1) is the case you never find out
about (2) or (3), and if (2) is the case you never find out about (3).
/B
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Su-Laine Yeo [mailto:su-laine.yeo@justsystems.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 7:40 PM
> To: dita
> Subject: RE: [dita] Question: Definition of "undefined key"
>
> Hi Bruce,
>
> Consider case #2 from below: If the topic1.dita file does not
> contain an element with id="para1", does the xref have an
> undefined key?
> Assuming topc1.dita can be found, the key is resolvable.
> However, the keyref is not resolvable, because the keyref
> points to a key *and an element ID*.
>
> Su-Laine
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Nevin (bnevin) [mailto:bnevin@cisco.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 3:47 PM
> To: Su-Laine Yeo; dita
> Subject: RE: [dita] Question: Definition of "undefined key"
>
> I like it. In some sense they're equivalent, but it's a
> shorter cognitive route to understand your definition. My
> paraphrase of Eliot requires you to remember how a key name
> is bound to a resource; yours doesn't.
>
> > Also note that an unresolvable keyref can include an resolvable key
> > name.
>
> You're saying that there's more than one reason for failure
> to resolve a key reference.
>
> The reason a key name is unresolvable is because the resource
> it's bound to can't be found.
>
> One reason a keyref is unresolvable is because the resource
> to which it refers can't be found--in other words, because it
> depends on a key name that is unresolvable.
>
> What's the other reason a keyref is unresolvable? In other
> words, how is the keyref unresolvable when the key name that
> it uses is resolvable?
>
> Presumably that would apply to any key reference (@keyref or
> @conkeyref).
>
> /B
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Su-Laine Yeo [mailto:su-laine.yeo@justsystems.com]
> > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 6:00 PM
> > To: dita
> > Subject: RE: [dita] Question: Definition of "undefined key"
> >
> > I think Bruce's summary is a good step. However this part
> doesn't look
> > right:
> >
> > >Undefined key name: a key name which is not bound to a
> resource in an
> > effective <topicref>. (Also: undefined key.)
> >
> > Shouldn't this be:
> >
> > >Undefined key name: a key name which is not found in the @keys
> > attribute of any effective <topicref>. (Also: undefined key.)
> >
> > Also note that an unresolvable keyref can include an resolvable key
> > name.
> >
> > Su-Laine
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bruce Nevin (bnevin) [mailto:bnevin@cisco.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 2:25 PM
> > To: Eliot Kimber; Su-Laine Yeo; dita
> > Subject: RE: [dita] Question: Definition of "undefined key"
> >
> > Putting that in definitional form:
> >
> > Key name: the string that is bound to one or more resources
> in a key
> > definition. Within the key defining element,it can be bound
> to any or
> > all of: the resource specified by a @keyref attribute; the resource
> > specified by an @href attribute; content of a <topicmeta> element.
> >
> > Key: the binding of a key name to a resource. The @keys attribute
> > creates such bindings.
> >
> > Unresolved key name: a key name that is bound to a resource that
> > cannot be found. (Also: unresolved key, unresolvable key name,
> > unresolvable
> > key.)
> >
> > Undefined key name: a key name which is not bound to a
> resource in an
> > effective <topicref>. (Also: undefined key.)
> >
> > Effective <topicref>: in a map, a <topicref> element that is not
> > filtered out.
> >
> > "Key defining element" is used here but not defined. Other stuff is
> > more commentary on the spec than definitional. If a key
> definition is
> > associated with <topicmeta> content that may be used as its bound
> > content, it can never be unresolved.
> > Could talk about the precedence and other interrelation of
> the several
> > resources that could be bound to a key name in a given key
> definition.
> > That sort of thing.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Eliot Kimber [mailto:ekimber@reallysi.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 3:08 PM
> > > To: Su-Laine Yeo; dita
> > > Subject: Re: [dita] Question: Definition of "undefined key"
> > >
> > > Undefined key and undefined key name are synonymous
> ("undefined key
> > > name" is the more correct construction because we tried to be
> > > consistent in the use of "key name" to make the string value you
> > > utter, as distinct from the key as the binding of the key
> > name to one
> > > or more resources.
> > >
> > > An undefined key is definitely distinct from an unresolvable key.
> > >
> > > An undefined key has no effective binding. That is, there is no
> > > topicref element that is effective (that is, that is not
> > filtered out)
> > > that specifies the key name as a value of its @keys attribute.
> > >
> > > A key that is defined but for which the associated resource
> > cannot be
> > > resolved is an unresolvable key.
> > >
> > > A key definition that has <topicmeta> that may be used as
> the key's
> > > bound resource can never be unresolvable.
> > >
> > > Note that a key binding may be bound to just a remote
> > resource, just
> > > descendant content of the topicref, or *both*.
> > >
> > > One could argue that we need to distinguish the case where a key
> > > definition specifies a remote resource as well as
> > <topicmeta> content
> > > and the remote resource cannot be resolved separate from the case
> > > where there is no <topicmeta> content.
> > >
> > > In the second case the implications are clear: there is only one
> > > possible resource and it either can be resolved or it can't.
> > >
> > > In the first case you probably want to know that the remote
> > resource
> > > couldn't be resolved and possibly have the system act in a
> > certain way
> > > in that case, even though there is still, technically a (local)
> > > resource bound to the key definition.
> > >
> > > For example, I can imagine wanting to have the @href
> > fallback behavior
> > > apply when the remote resource cannot be resolved even
> when the key
> > > definition has <topicmeta> content.
> > >
> > > The spec is definitely silent on that particular issue.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > E.
> > >
> > > On 4/28/11 1:24 PM, "Su-Laine Yeo"
> > > <su-laine.yeo@justsystems.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi everyone,
> > > >
> > > > I think we're going to need a FAQ item about what the
> > definition of
> > > > "undefined key" is.
> > > >
> > > > Eliot, after re-reading your response I am not sure if you
> > > are saying
> > > > that case 3 would be considered an undefined key. In case
> > > 3, obviously
> > > > the keyref can't be resolved, but are you saying that this
> > > should be
> > > > treated as it can't be resolved in spite of there being a
> > > defined key,
> > > > or are you saying that it should be treated as an undefined key?
> > > >
> > > > The fourth paragraph in this topic:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://docs.oasis-open.org/dita/v1.2/os/spec/archSpec/using_keys_to_ad
> > > > dr ess_dita_elements.html implies that "undefined key name"
> > > and "key
> > > > reference cannot be resolved to a resource" are distinct
> > > cases. I am
> > > > not sure if the spec intends "undefined key" and "undefined
> > > key name"
> > > > to mean the same thing.
> > > >
> > > > I don't have time to take the lead in sorting out this
> issue. Can
> > > > anyone else volunteer to draft an FAQ item?
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Su-Laine
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Su-Laine Yeo
> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 10:53 AM
> > > > To: dita
> > > > Subject: RE: [dita] Question: Definition of "undefined key"
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Eliot. What if you have:
> > > >
> > > > <map>
> > > > <keydef keys="topic1" href="topic1.dita">
> > > >
> <topicmeta><keywords><keyword>foo</keyword></keywords></topicmeta>
> > > > </map>
> > > >
> > > > Then in case 2 and 3, are the keys still considered
> > undefined? This
> > > > part of the spec:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://docs.oasis-open.org/dita/v1.2/os/spec/archSpec/overview_of_keys
> > > > .h tml#overview_of_keys seems to say that the key would be
> > > considered
> > > > defined because it is bound to topicmeta. Is that the intention?
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > Su-Laine
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Eliot Kimber [mailto:ekimber@reallysi.com]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 6:13 AM
> > > > To: Su-Laine Yeo; dita
> > > > Subject: Re: [dita] Question: Definition of "undefined key"
> > > >
> > > > An "undefined" key is a key name for which no binding is
> > effective.
> > > >
> > > > In the case of the key "topic1", the key is defined but
> > > it's resource
> > > > does not and there is no other content in the topicref, so
> > > there is no
> > > > resource bound to the key.
> > > >
> > > > In that case, the fallback rules for unresolvable keys applies.
> > > >
> > > > That is, there are three ways that key references can fail
> > > to resolve
> > > > to a
> > > > resource:
> > > >
> > > > 1. There is no effective binding for the key at all.
> > > >
> > > > 2. There is a binding for the key but the resource to
> which it is
> > > > bound cannot be accessed.
> > > >
> > > > 3. Where the key reference includes an element ID
> > component, if the
> > > > key reference can be resolved (that is, the key component of a
> > > > key/element-id
> > > > pair) but the specified element isn't there, then the key
> > > reference is
> > > > unresolvable.
> > > >
> > > > If this isn't clear from the spec as written then we
> > > definitely need
> > > > to make it clearer because it's fundamental to the key
> mechanism.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > > E.
> > > >
> > > > On 4/26/11 3:05 PM, "Su-Laine Yeo"
> > > <su-laine.yeo@justsystems.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi everyone,
> > > >>
> > > >> One more question on the "Processing key references"
> topic here:
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://docs.oasis-open.org/dita/v1.2/os/spec/archSpec/processing_key_r
> > > > ef
> > > > erence
> > > >> s.html
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> <http://docs.oasis-open.org/dita/v1.2/os/spec/archSpec/processing_key_
> > > > re
> > > > ferenc
> > > >> es.html>
> > > >>
> > > >> It says, "If a referencing element contains a key
> > reference with an
> > > > undefined
> > > >> key, it is processed as if there were no key reference".
> > What does
> > > > "undefined
> > > >> key" mean? For example, say you have:
> > > >>
> > > >> <map>
> > > >>
> > > >> <keydef keys="topic1" href="topic1.dita"/>
> > > >>
> > > >> </map>
> > > >>
> > > >> <topic>
> > > >>
> > > >> S
> > > >>
> > > >> <xref keyref="topic1/para1"
> > href="topic2.dita#topic2/para2"></xref>
> > > >>
> > > >> S
> > > >>
> > > >> </topic1>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Case 1) If the topic1.dita file cannot be found, does the
> > > xref have
> > > >> an undefined key?
> > > >>
> > > >> Case 2) If the topic1.dita file does not contain an
> element with
> > > > id="para1",
> > > >> does the xref have an undefined key?
> > > >>
> > > >> If an xref is considered to have an undefined key, the
> > href will be
> > > > used. If
> > > >> it is not considered to have an undefined key, the
> > processor should
> > > > presumably
> > > >> treat it as an error condition.
> > > >>
> > > >> Su-Laine
> > > >>
> > > >> Su-Laine Yeo
> > > >> Solutions Consultant
> > > >>
> > > >> JustSystems Canada, Inc.
> > > >> Office: 1 (778) 327-6356
> > > >> syeo@justsystems.com <mailto:syeo@justsystems.com>
> > > >>
> > > >> XMetaL Community Forums: http://forums.xmetal.com
> > > >>
> > > >> For partners only: http://www.justpartnercenter.com
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Eliot Kimber
> > > > Senior Solutions Architect
> > > > "Bringing Strategy, Content, and Technology Together"
> > > > Main: 512.554.9368
> > > > www.reallysi.com
> > > > www.rsuitecms.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
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> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Eliot Kimber
> > > Senior Solutions Architect
> > > "Bringing Strategy, Content, and Technology Together"
> > > Main: 512.554.9368
> > > www.reallysi.com
> > > www.rsuitecms.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
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