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Subject: RE: [dita] DITA Technical Committee Meeting Minutes: 3 May 2011


Looks like I misheard or anyway mistyped the word "acronyms" as
"attributes".

I guess I need to check links and not just copy them. Here's the correct
URL for April 26 minutes:

http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201104/msg00045.html

Good catch! Amended minutes for 5/3 attached.

	/B

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Su-Laine Yeo [mailto:su-laine.yeo@justsystems.com] 
> Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 5:56 PM
> To: dita
> Subject: RE: [dita] DITA Technical Committee Meeting Minutes: 
> 3 May 2011
> 
> Hi Bruce,
> 
> The minutes for May 3 should say that we approved the amended 
> April 26 minutes. The draft minutes you just sent have a link 
> to the April 19 minutes. Could you please replace that link 
> with a link to the April 26 minutes?
> 
> Regarding:
> 
> > JoAnn: Is what we say about expansion of attributes 
> incorrect because
> of this issue? We we expect expansion only in the first 
> occurrence. Is there a use case for expansion elsewhere?
> 
> I think JoAnn's question was about something other than 
> expansion of attributes. I think it was something about how 
> glossary elements are processed, although I can't remember 
> exactly what it was. JoAnn, do you remember?
> 
> Best,
> Su-Laine
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce Nevin (bnevin) [mailto:bnevin@cisco.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 9:25 AM
> To: dita
> Subject: [dita] DITA Technical Committee Meeting Minutes: 3 May 2011
> 
>  
> 
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> 
DITA Technical Committee Meeting Minutes: 3 May 2011

The DITA Technical Committee met on Tuesday, 3 May 2011 at 08:00am PT for 55 minutes.

Chaired by Don Day donday@bga.com
Minutes recorded by Bruce Nevin <bnevin@cisco.com>

8:00-8:05 Roll call
 o  Regrets: Chris Nitchie
> Quorum was established.

> Don and Kris will both be away May 24; Bruce will chair; we will need a scribe.

STANDING BUSINESS:

Approve minutes from previous business meeting:
 o  http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201104/msg00045.html (Nevin)

> Acceptance of minutes moved by Don Day, seconded by Su-Laine, approved by acclamation.

Discussion of goals of minutes.

> Don: Paul asked for URLs to flesh out the minutes. When a URL is not available during the meeting, we should note that as an action and not hold up the minutes. 
> Paul: That's OK, should probably be a rare case.
> Don: Yes, and presenters should be prepared with a URL at the time. 
> Don: The other matter was that we missed discussing an item in the agenda. 
> Su-Laine: We just needed to get the minutes to reflect what we actually did discuss. We didn't discuss the topic that was listed in the agenda, we discussed something else. 
> Don: When we get to items 6 and 7, let's make sure that it's straightened out.
> Su-Laine: We need to make the same correction to today's agenda that we made to last week's minutes. We agreed last week on what is now item 3a, and that's still open for discussion today. We need to remove what is now item 3 from the agenda.
> Kris: Done.

Subcommittee/liaison reports:

 o OASIS DITA Help Subcommittee (Stan?)

> Updating feature proposals for 1.3. Will soon need some guidance as to templates and process in the next month or month and a half. What timeframe would the TC like to see reports and proposals.
> We've been engaging with vendors. People tend to learn about DITA as much through the tools vendors as through the TC. We've been soliciting participation. Response has been both supportive and critical. 
> Ongoing, we've been working with DITA help users and getting feedback about their experiences and challenges, and including this information in our reports.

ACTION (Don): Alert Mark Boses to be prepared to report next week for the OASIS DITA for Enterprise Business Documents Subcommittee.

BUSINESS:

1. ITEM: FAQ item about "Interaction between key resolution or key binding and conditional processing"
  o  TC review the draft: "What is the interaction between key resolution or key binding and conditional processing?": http://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/FAQ-items#Q.Whatistheinteractionbetweenkeyresolutionorkeybindingandconditionalprocessing.3F
   * Wiki page for review comments: http://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/Review-FAQ-
   * Waiting for Kris to edit
   * Close once we're ready to post FAQ item on xml.org.

> Kris: I'm about halfway through a draft, and will give it to Eliot for review when it's ready. After that, I'll report to the TC. If some of the impetus for the FAQ was that language in the 1.2 spec was unclear, we want to be sure it is clear in the FAQ.


> Don: In the following agenda items, we need to discriminate 1.2 from 1.3 items clearly.

2. NEW ITEM: Question: Definition of "undefined key"
  o  http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita/email/archives/201104/msg00049.html (Su-Laine Yeo, Tue, 26 Apr 2011 13:05:12 -0700)
  o  9 responses, see http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita/email/archives/201104/threads.html#00049
  o  Participants in thread: Su-Laine Yeo, Eliot Kimber, Bruce Nevin

> Su-Laine: this is a 1.2 issue because the term apparently is not defined in the 1.2 spec. Can we get a volunteer to write this FAQ item?
> Eliot: The definition of a key is a separate matter from the resolvability of a resource to which the key refers. We did identify an 'edge case' that actually is fairly common. We need to either specify correct behavior or say that processors are free to decide. Given that it's an omission, it probably should be treated as an erratum.

ACTION (Eliot): Write a draft of clarified text for inclusion in the errata.
CLOSED pending action.

3. NEW ITEM: Question on alt text for links defined using keyref
  o  http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita/email/archives/201104/msg00050.html (Su-Laine Yeo, Tue, 26 Apr 2011 14:14:58 -0700)

> Su-Laine: Pertains to rendering elements and topics with keyrefs. Where does alt text come from? Should local alt text win, or alt text from <topicmeta>? 
> Kris: In the spec we say there's only one circumstance when content in the map overrides local content, namely, when you have a @copyto attribute value.

ACTION (Kris): send Su-Laine a link to information about the @copy-to case
CLOSED pending action.

4. NEW ITEM: Question: local content in <abbreviated-form> element with keyref
  o  http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita/email/archives/201104/msg00051.html (Su-Laine Yeo, Tue, 26 Apr 2011 15:22:55 -0700)
  o  Two responses, see http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita/email/archives/201104/threads.html#00051
  o  Participants in thread: Su-Laine Yeo, Bruce Nevin

> Su-Laine: the spec doesn't say what to do if the <abbreviated-form> element has content as well as a keyref. We could leave this unspecified, or address it in errata.
> Bruce: Could say in a FAQ item that you could use local content as a fallback, but there are good reasons not to.
> JoAnn: Is what we say about expansion of acronyms incorrect because of this issue? We we expect expansion only in the first occurrence. Is there a use case for expansion elsewhere?
> Su-Laine: To make content comprehensible to people who are using a viewer to view the source (authoring or translation) without resolving keyref. They would see a gap.
> Kris: Abbreviated-form is only going to work in conjunction with keys. People are really interested in glossary support, and aren't getting good answers from the spec and from the current implementation in the OT.
> Eliot: The general issue of having an empty element with a keyref accrues to any element with keyref. The only thing an editor can do is present the actual key name. For authors to put local text there simply to provide a fallback is a bad idea. 
> Su-Laine: the spec doesn't say for <abbreviated-form> that local content wins. 
> Eliot: It should, that's the general rule.
> Eliot, Michael: The only reason I can think that the spec allows content there is that it has to allow it in a resolved result. Once you resolve keyref, you must still have valid DITA. 
> Eliot: However, the reference says that it is empty in all contexts in which it can be used.
> Bruce: Then how can it have children after resolution of keyref?
> Consensus: a non-issue.

CLOSED.

5. ITEM: Perceptions that DITA is complex
  o  http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita/email/archives/201105/msg00001.html (Stan Doherty, TMon, 02 May 2011 13:51:09 -0400 -- recent e-mail on thread)
  o  Wiki page: "What do people (really) mean when they say "DITA is too complex"?

> Stan Doherty: The goal of the wiki was to collect information. I've had the action to organize it. I put in boldface markers numbering complexity items and potential solutions. At the end, I put in an issue-to-solution matrix, correlating issues to solutions.  There's a blank column where an issue has no proposed solution. At the very end is a list of the proposed solutions.
> Don: This is a very useful compilation. How shall we proceed from here? One approach would be to identify items for resolution in DITA 1.3 and items for the Adoption TC. Bruce: seems unlikely there would be FAQ or errata items here, we'd have noticed.
> Michael: There are some duplicates, might be worth cleaning that up. 
> Stan: I decided to let the TC decide about duplicates. 
> Michael: yes, that was the right thing. Might be useful to indicate which ones are duplicates. I don't think it's a big task. Then we need to review this in a TC meeting.
> Don, JoAnn: We'll review the 1.3 items next week, and the rest two weeks from now, when we will have good representation from the Adoption TC.

ACTION (Stan): Clearly indicate duplications in the issue/resolution matrix.
ACTION (Don): Move this item to a higher point in the agenda.

6. ITEM: How should elements with keyref attributes be rendered?
  o  http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201104/msg00034.html (Yeo)
> Su-Laine: This is finished and ready to go in the FAQ. Will post to dita.xml.org.

CLOSED.

8:50-8:55 PT Announcements/Opens
8:55 PT Adjourn


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