Organization: Maxprograms
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 11:27:07 -0300
To: JoAnn Hackos <joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com>, Don Day <donday@learningbywrote.com>, Bryan Schnabel <bryan.s.schnabel@tek.com>, Gershon Joseph <gerjosep@cisco.com>
Subject: RE: Updated XLIFF PDF
Hi JoAnn,
Regarding the second bullet, a translation tool should let you indicate what elements and attributes you want to translate. A tool may ship a default configuration containing the list of standard elements from
the official DITA release that are translatable, but if you create new elements in your customization you need a way to indicate those that must be translated.
I don’t care which catalog format is used for validating the DITA files, as long as it is in an open format. The official DITA distribution has DTDs, Schemas and includes a catalog in OASIS format. That catalog
is an important part of the distribution and its format is open.
The rewritten text
-
validate your DITA specializations by using, for example, OASIS XML catalogs or other open standards to invoke the appropriate DTD or Schema
is OK for me.
Regards,
Rodolfo
From: JoAnn Hackos [mailto:joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 11:07 AM
To: Don Day (LbyW); Bryan Schnabel; Rodolfo Raya; Gershon Joseph
Subject: Re: Updated XLIFF PDF
HI All,
The committee asked me to get Don's take on the wording of catalogs. I've edited somewhat to shorten.
Please review below.
JoAnn
From: Don Day <donday@learningbywrote.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2011 01:33:32 -0500
To: JoAnn Hackos <joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com>
Subject: Re: Updated XLIFF PDF
I agree with Paul that there should not be a proscription against non-open methods--a resolver is a resolver, and as long as it does the job correctly, the mechanism
can be a black box yet still achieve the result you want: invoking the correct DTD for validation. Competition in the marketplace is encouraged by leaving those "glue" details underspecified so that vendors can provide their own form of presumed value, whether
open or not.
We can try your wording with "open standards" but I'd expect Paul to still react since he's indicated his position on more generality. Could we try a slight rephrasing that leaves open the option for other methods, although not exactly saying so? I think we
could persuade Paul that this ameliorates his concern about over-proscription:
-
validate your DITA specializations by using, for example, OASIS XML catalogs or other open standards to invoke the appropriate DTD or Schema
For that second bullet, I don't see whether Rodolfo reacted to Gershon's wording. If you think Rodolfo would agree, I'd prefer Gershon's wording on the basis of clarity.
--
--
Don Day
Learning by Wrote
Co-Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee
On 9/19/2011 10:02 PM, JoAnn Hackos wrote:
HI Don,
Thanks for the ideas.
I think Rodolfo is most concerned with the word "standards" in his wording: using
a catalog in an open standard format
Can we preserve that in your idea below.
-
validate your DITA specializations by using OASIS XML catalogs or other methods to invoke the appropriate DTD or Schema
Becomes
-
validate your DITA specializations by using OASIS XML catalogs or other open standards to invoke the appropriate DTD or Schema
I must also say that I don't know what the second bullet means
-
provide custom configuration of elements and attributes that are translatable.
Rodolfo speaks of " resolving entities " rather than "configuration of elements" or
"resolving components". I think this could be a lot more clear. Any ideas?
JoAnn
From: Don Day <donday@learningbywrote.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 15:49:41 -0500
To: JoAnn Hackos <joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com>
Subject: Re: FW: Updated XLIFF PDF
I'd go for a gentler approach: just split the two thoughts that Gershon picked up on, and then augment the catalog bit:
"support your DITA specializations by using OASIS XML catalogs and allowing custom configuration of elements and
attributes that are translatable"
becomes:
* validate your DITA specializations by using OASIS XML catalogs or other methods to invoke the appropriate DTD or Schema
* provide custom configuration of elements and attributes that are translatable.
For the second bullet, I prefer Gershon's clearer wording, using "provide" for parallelism, but the line above preserves Rodolfo's wording.
Page 7 had two minor bits:
At the end of the first para, insert "the" into "it is not possible to predict {the} level of cost reductions..."
In "You can translate DITA maps..." the phrase "use a tool that can handle" is colloquial; I prefer "use a tool that is aware of"
--
--
Don Day
Learning by Wrote
Co-Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee
On 9/19/2011 1:51 PM, JoAnn Hackos wrote:
Any thoughts?
JoAnn T. Hackos, PhD
President
Comtech Services Inc.
710 Kipling Street, Suite 400
Denver, CO 80215
skype joannhackos
From: Rodolfo M. Raya [mailto:rmraya@maxprograms.com]
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 11:15 AM
To: JoAnn Hackos; 'Schnabel, Bryan S'; 'Gershon Joseph'
Subject: RE: Updated XLIFF PDF
You are right JoAnn, a comma is missing.
Regards,
Rodolfo
From: JoAnn Hackos [mailto:joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com]
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 2:06 PM
To: Schnabel, Bryan S; Rodolfo M. Raya; 'Gershon Joseph'
Subject: RE: Updated XLIFF PDF
Rodolfo,
I don’t quite understand your new sentence:
validating the content against your DITA specializations resolving entities using a catalog in an open standard format,
like the ones published by OASIS
Should there be a comma after DITA specializations, resolving entities....? Otherwise difficult to read.
JoAnn
JoAnn T. Hackos, PhD
President
Comtech Services Inc.
710 Kipling Street, Suite 400
Denver, CO 80215
skype joannhackos
From: Schnabel, Bryan S
[mailto:bryan.s.schnabel@tektronix.com]
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 10:41 AM
To: JoAnn Hackos; Rodolfo M. Raya; 'Gershon Joseph'
Subject: RE: Updated XLIFF PDF
I like Rodolfo's suggestion just fine.
I hadn't understood that Gershon's suggestion was meant to resolve the SGML vs. XML catalog issue. I'd thought it was to point out that not all tools use the catalog method.
- Bryan
From: JoAnn Hackos
[mailto:joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com]
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 9:10 AM
To: Rodolfo M. Raya; 'Gershon Joseph'; Schnabel, Bryan S
Subject: RE: Updated XLIFF PDF
Thanks Rodolfo,
Could Gershon and Bryan comment here before I make the change?
JoAnn
JoAnn T. Hackos, PhD
President
Comtech Services Inc.
710 Kipling Street, Suite 400
Denver, CO 80215
skype joannhackos
From: Rodolfo M. Raya
[mailto:rmraya@maxprograms.com]
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 9:03 AM
To: JoAnn Hackos; 'Gershon Joseph'; 'Schnabel, Bryan S'
Subject: RE: Updated XLIFF PDF
Hi JoAnn,
Just did a quick look and noticed the phrase:
validating the content against your DITA specializations (the use of OASIS XML catalogs is strongly recommended
but some tools may have other ways to resolve the components of your DITA specializations to validate content)
I don’t agree with that text.
Paul doesn’t like the fact that I used “OASIS XML Catalogs” because he says that there are two catalog formats published by OASIS, one for XML and one for SGML and I’m suggesting a specific
one (the one in XML format).
I would change the conflictive sentence to
validating the content against your DITA specializations resolving entities using a catalog in an open standard format,
like the ones published by OASIS
To me, “some tools may have other ways to resolve components of your DITA specialization” indicates that some tools are using proprietary entity resolvers. I wrote the article thinking
on open standards and don’t want to suggest adopting proprietary solutions.
I have a request for changing one of the examples (the XLIFF file), but that can wait until we find agreement on the catalog issue.
Regards,
Rodolfo
From: JoAnn Hackos
[mailto:joann.hackos@comtech-serv.com]
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 11:33 AM
To: Gershon Joseph; Rodolfo M. Raya; Schnabel, Bryan S
Subject: FW: Updated XLIFF PDF
Here is the latest and greatest version of the XLIFF article. Please review before I post to the committee files on Friday.
JoAnn T. Hackos, PhD
President
Comtech Services Inc.
710 Kipling Street, Suite 400
Denver, CO 80215
skype joannhackos
From: Harold Trent
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 6:18 AM
To: JoAnn Hackos
Subject: Updated XLIFF PDF
Hi JoAnn,
This is the update PDF using the files that were sent Sunday morning.
Thanks,
Hal