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Subject: Groups - DITA TC Meeting Minutes 14 July 2015 uploaded
- From: Nancy Harrison<nharrison@infobridge-solutions.com>
- To: dita@lists.oasis-open.org
- Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 10:52:02 -0700 (PDT)
Submitter's message
ActionItems:
1. Kris will send Chet a note on closing Translation SC and give him the link to these minutes.
2. TC members look at 'tasks' list, sign up as able
3. Kris will build arch spec PDF with index, and post it, and people can say where they are wrt this.
=================================================
Minutes of the OASIS DITA TC
Tuesday, 14 July 2015
Recorded by Nancy Harrison
link to agenda for this meeting:
https://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/PreviousAgendas
Regrets: Tom Magliery, Scott Hudson
Standing Business
=================
Approve minutes from previous business meetings:
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201507/msg00054.html (Nancy Harrison, 7 July 2015)
Proposed by Kris, seconded by Dick, approved by TC
Subcommittee Reports
none
Announcements
None
Business
========
1. Action items
- Action items from 7 July 2015
Kris: Add reminder to members about voting membership rules (Completed)
Kris: Create Wiki page for "Things we can do during the public review" (Completed)
Kris; both closed.
2. Closing inactive subcommittees
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201507/msg00058.html (Eberlein, 11 July 2015)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201507/msg00059.html (Hackos, 11 July 2015)
Kris; we need to close SCs that are not active; currently Translation and SIDSC SCs. Want to leave another week to get info from Chet about whether we will be able to put SIDSC artifacts on an open source repository so folks can access them once the SC is closed.
Joann; most of the Translation SC work has been transitioned to Adoption TC, so I think we can close SC and finalize transitioning that work to Adoption TC.
Kris; I move that we close the Translation SC; if we need to have one in future, we can re-open it.
Bob seconded, no 'no' votes; motion accepted by TC
Joann; what happens to SC website?
Kris; all artifacts are left on OASIS website; they can be accessed, still in Kavi, part of DITA TC's repository.
Joann; that's even more important for SIDSC.
Kris; we're still leaving that one open; waiting to hear about OASIS open source repository so we can move SIDSC stuff there and anyone who might want to can continue development.
ActionItem; Kris will send Chet a note on closing Translation SC and give him the link to these minutes.
3. Calendar for critical dates to enable DITA 1.3 to be released in 2015
Schedule: July - December 2015
Kris; there's already a bit of slippage; the opening for public review was July 8 instead of July 7, so end slipped to Aug 7.
Robert; lesson learned is ' we can't rely in quick turnaround from OASIS admin; we're just one of many TCs for them to respond to.
Kris; we may need some special TC meetings to compensate.
4. Comments received during the public review, 7 July - 5 September
Public review #1 comments
Kris; please track these and respond as appropriate
5. New dita-comment: Comments on metadata in DITA 1.3 spec
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita-comment/201507/msg00015.html (Richard Forster, 14 July 2015)
Robert; his comment #1 raises thorny issues that have been around for awhile. Suggests changing the meaning of a sentence, so it can't be incorporated into spec at this point. His suggestion would flip the meaning. (also, the section that he's commenting on is word-for-word same as 1.2). Comment #2 is on lockmeta, since 1.1, this definition says the opposite of everywhere else. we need to bring arch. spec. in line with what we have in language ref. I think the error in the language ref.
Nancy; so shall we modify langref?
Robert; we either modify langref, or leave it as unfixable. I don't consider it a material change, but it is a change...
Kris; so there are 2 options; either leave it as is, or correct language ref; I lean towards corrections in langref, so no one else runs into this.
David; PTC allows people to do this, so we'd go along with that.
Eliot; reading language ref entry for topicmenta; everything in general description says it overrides data in topic. If you read the description of lockmeta, it says this controls something that never happens... so the attribute could have no effect.
Robert; I didn't even notice that the topicmeta definition itself is inconsistent; within the topic we're saying 2 different things; it makes the language ref topic itself inconsistent. I'm not certain of exact wording we want, but we want it consistent witth arch spec.
Eliot; we should have same data in attribute section of topicmeta, with corresponding content in arch spec.
Kris; any objections? [none]
[will track this through wiki page, not AI]
Robert; Comment #3 is just grammatical; we'll make the fix.
Robert; Comment #4 navtitle; another inconsistency. in navtitle, it states that it doesn't cascade; that's inconsistent with topic 2 section earlier in spec; navtitle can override title. This wording existed in 1.2, so it wasn't introduced in 1.3. We don't know what to do. either we can leave it, since it didn't change, or we can change one of them.
Kris; I think it would make more sense to make a tweak to the arch spec topic; it's not as precise as could be (arch spec section 2.2.4.3)
Nancy; how is this not a material change?
Kris; a material change would break things, so we can't change grammar files to make them more restrictive, though we could change them to make them broader. Tweaking spec like this, we're on safe ground.
Eliot; we should be able to clarify this in a way that doesn't change things.
Kris; so we could leave it as is, and it's just not as clear for people like Richard?
Robert; the problem is that the topic was written from the mindset of a processing tool chain that pushed navtitle into a topic.
Kris; looking closely at his comment, he's saying 'may also override title itself' - we absolutely know that can't be done; the spec could be understood to mean navtitle could override navtitle. so maybe we could ignore the thornier issue we've raised.
Joann; could we just add that 'alternate titles can override their equivalent titles'?
6. New dita-comment: Comment on equation numbering in DITA 1.3 spec
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita-comment/201507/msg00013.html (Richard Forster, 14 July 2015)
There are two questions brought up here:
1. numbering; Richard is asking that there be some standard expected behavior.
Eliot; the way of numbering is so variable that there's nothing we can say about how they're done.
Robert; we don't even say whether it's sequential. The answer really is; it's up to the processor and your own preferences. So the answer to both his questions is is 'no'.
2. in this topic, didn't conref, instead added new @s, we should really have conref'd
Kris; shall we hold this for next week for continuing item? In the meantime, the help SC can review possibilities.
Robert; yes. the lowest impact change is to add @appname, but we should do it via conref.
3., 4. straightforward wording/typo issues.
Eliot; my preference would be to remove definition list from arch spec, because it's redundant with what's in language ref.
Robert; I'll take that as direction
[leave for next week, but just barely]
7. New dita-comment: Comments on context hooks in DITA 1.3 spec
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita-comment/201507/msg00014.html (Richard Forster, 14 July 2015)
[hold for next week]
8. Continuing item: Things we can do during the forthcoming public review
Wiki page for work items
Kris; TC members, please look at lists, let me know if you can sign up for anything.
ActionItem; TC members look at 'tasks' list, sign up as able
9. Continuing item: Index in the PDF version of the spec?
- https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201507/msg00026.html (Eberlein, 7 July 2015)
- https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201507/msg00027.html (Kimber, 7 July 2015)
- Active discussion 7-10 July from Bob Thomas, Scott Hudson, Eliot Kimber, Tom Magliery, JoAnn Hackos, Leigh White, Dick Hamilton, Michael Priestly, Robert Anderson
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201507/msg00044.html (Priestley, 8 July 2015)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201507/msg00045.html (Anderson, 8 July 2015)
- https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201507/msg00079.html (Eberlein, 14 July 2014)
Amber; I watched the thread; the idea of releasing a PDF without an index is not good; I also felt that the guidance - if it applies to whole topic, in prolog, otherwise put it where it goes - was good, but no index is not an option.
Kris; in 1.2 we pulled the index because the quality was so poor; that reason is why we're thinking of doing the same thing now.
Robert; right, the current index is worse than no index, because it's so bad, mostly from extra entries in language ref.
Amber; would it be possible to release those docs separately? Arch spec and language ref?
Kris; we can't do that at this point; it's way too late in the process to come up with new builds and packaging.
Robert; that's how it was released for 1.0 and 1.1 (as separate books), and people hated it; they didn't like to go to 2 different books
Kris; reality check; language ref is a real trainwreck; it was indexed early and badly. There are >2600 entries in language ref and most are useless. Arch spec was never indexed; I tried to do a little to see what it would take. I put all my entries in prolog. So everything in arch spec is indexed, except for branch filtering, ocnditionalization, etc, and coding requirements. But only in prolog, so lots of things aren't indexed. I don't think we can get arch spec completely indexed. I was surprised at the intensity of people's opinions about indexing.
Amber; I'm willing to work on the index, if you tell me what you want.
Robert; I'm not sure we can come to consensus in time; even if we start right now, we may not have a usable index in time.
Kris; I asked last week about volunteers; I don't know if we're at the point to decide. or we should leave the issue open and see what we can do.
Eliot; if there are people willing to take a shot, great, with understanding that it we can't, it just isn't there.
ActionItem; Kris will build arch spec PDF with index, and post it, and people can say where they are wrt this.
12:00 ET Close
-- Ms. Nancy Harrison
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