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Subject: Groups - DITA TC Meeting Minutes 20 February 2018 uploaded
- From: Nancy Harrison<nharrison@infobridge-solutions.com>
- To: dita@lists.oasis-open.org
- Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 22:43:16 -0800 (PST)
Submitter's message
ActionItems:
1. Kris will ping OASIS to see when they'll begin public review of the LwD CN.
2. Kris will respond to Stefan's comment with this discussion. others are welcome to chime in there, though it's not a discussion forum.
=================================================
Minutes of the OASIS DITA TC
Tuesday, 20 February 2018
Recorded by Nancy Harrison
link to agenda for this meeting:
https://wiki.OASIS-open.org/dita/PreviousAgendas
Attendance:
Robert Anderson, Deb Bissantz, Bill Burns, Stan Doherty, Kris Eberlein, Richard Hamilton, Nancy Harrison, Alan Hauser, Scott Hudson, Eliot Kimber, Tom Magliery, Chris Nitchie, Keith Schengili-Roberts, Eric Sirois, Jim Tivy
Business
========
1. Roll call
Regrets: Dawn Stevens, Carsten Brennecke, Carlos Evia, Bob Thomas
2. Approve minutes from previous business meeting:
13 February 2018:
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201802/msg00050.html (Harrison, 13 February 2018)
moved by Kris, 2nd by Bill, approved by TC
3. Announcements:
New TC members: None
4. Action items
6 September 2016
Kris: Revise subject scheme example topic pulled from errata 01
19 September 2017:
Kris and Robert: Draft response to Radu's blog post and e-mail to dita-comment
- Kris; will do this week
09 January 2018:
Chris: E-mail about adding new vocabulary element for inclusion of external XML; confer with Robert and Eliot (IN PROGRESS)
- Kris; I'll mark this as completed.
30 January 2018
Anderson: Stage two proposals for issue #18: Make audience, platform, product, otherprops into specializations
- Robert; still working on it; try to get it done this week
12 February 2018:
Thomas: Stage 2 proposal for issue #13: Split base and technical content
13 February 2018
Kris and Bob: Fix style sheets to produce OASIS-requested formatting changes (IN PROGRESS)
- Kris; Bob's done the changes for PDF, not yet HTML. I may be reaching out for help with the HTML plugin.
Kris: Request 2nd public review for LwDITA committee note (COMPLETED)
Nancy: Post to dita-users about navtitle attribute use & plans for removing it in DITA 2.0 (COMPLETED)
Keith: Post to DITA Awareness LinkedIn group about navtitle attribute use & plans for removing it in DITA 2.0 (COMPLETED)
19 February 2018:
Eberlein: Stage 2 proposal for issue #16: Add titlealts elements to map
- Kris; I may not have bandwidth/knowledge for this; may ask help on this.
26 February 2018:
Kimber: Stage 2 proposal for #34: Remove topicset and topicsetref
Kimber: Stage 2 proposal for #21: Resolve inconsistent class values for shortdesc, linktext, searchtitle
Nitchie: Progress, stage 2 proposal, or withdraw issue #8: Add a new vocabulary element for inclusion of external XML and text markup
Nitchie: Stage 3 proposal for issue #27: Add multimedia domain
5. "LwDITA: An Introduction" committee note
New package: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita/document.php?document_id=62491&referring_url=%2Fkws
Progress?
Public review requested on 14 February 2018
- Kris; I made the OASIS admin request on this, no response so far...
***ActionItem: Kris will ping OASIS to see when they'll begin public review of the LwD CN.
6. dita-comment e-mail
Guided Authoring with Lightweight DITA
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita-comment/201802/msg00000.html (Stefan Gruber, 12 February 2018)
Kris gave overview:
Stefan's question #1. is an HTML editor needed even for HDITA?
- Alan; this is a part of LwD that's not yet specified, so we don't know yet the answer for this; I think validation will be a big hairy issue for both HDITA and MDITA
- Kris; were you present when we had this discussion previously?
- Alan; don't recall it.
- Robert; I think there's one easy answer; HTML editor required? No, but desirable? Yes. If you had a tool that could use an HDITA DTD, you'd be much better off.
- Chris; what's the processing expectations when non-LwD Markdown makes it into a document, as it will? It will be up to the vendor.
- Robert; this is the flip side; we were concerned that the spec doesn't deal with non-compliant content. if you have a validating editor, much better...
- Kris; people wonder if we - as the TC - will ship a DTD...
- Robert; and we don't know the answer to that.
- Chris; a main point is that you can contribute to LwD without dedicated authoring. If you don't want to break your content, then use XML; the possibility of breakage is the price you pay for flexibility in markup.
- Robert; I have sympathy with that view, the only argument against it is that people are already using HTML, so their editors could understand a DTD; is there a useful set of HTML editors cthat could make use of a DTD? If no one uses it, what's the point?
- Scott; maybe we turn it to vendors; if you want a constraint, contribute it to the standard, but it's not up to the TC to provide.
Stefan's question #2
2) Am I right with my assumption that in HDITA the HTML is mainly interpreted as semantic markup, thus the formatting included in the HTML tags is for the most part ignored at publishing?
In the DITA Open Toolkit documentation I saw that it offers a preview support for Lightweight DITA. Also DITA maps can specify topic references not only to XML, but also to HTML and Markdown files.
-> As far as I understood, this, however, does not mean that it is possible to use arbitrary HTML as input - right?
----
- Chris; formatting is mainly semantic, so separation of content from format, since tags don't give formatting. not sure this question makes a lot of sense.
- Chris; we're not talking about presentation attributes. but you're at the mercy of your vendor.
- Kris; as far as using arbitrary HTML as input. that will depend entirely on the processor; it's entirely outside of the scope for LwD and the DITA standard.
***ActionItem; Kris will respond to Stefan's comment with this discussion. others are welcome to chime in there, though it's not a discussion forum.
7. DITA 1.3 Errata 02
Wiki page for DITA 1.3 Errata 02
Update:
TC admin provided list of cover page corrections on 06 February 2018
Source changed implemented:
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201802/msg00036.html (Eberlein, 09 Feb 2018)
Style sheet changes needed:
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201802/msg00040.html (Eberlein, 13 Feb 2018)
Progress?
Schedule
https://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/DITA-1.3-errata-02-schedule
[see action items above; waiting for response from OASIS]
8. DITA 2.0 stage two proposals: Initial discussion
https://github.com/oasis-tcs/dita/projects/2
Process: https://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/DITA_2.0_Proposal_Process_DRAFT?highlight=%28DITA%29%7C%282.0%29%7C%28stages%29
[none today]
9. DITA 2.0 stage two proposals: Continuing discussion
Issue #36: Remove deprecated items
UPDATED https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201802/msg00059.html (Eberlein, 19 Feb 2018)
Feedback from LinkedIn DITA Awareness group and dita-users about navtitle attribute:
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201802/msg00061.html (Summary of discussion on LinkedIn, Schengili-Roberts, 20 February 2018)
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201802/msg00065.html (Forwarded by Eberlein from dita-users, 20 February 2018)
- Kris; comments on the responses?
- Tom; one piece is easy, other piece I don't have an answer for - keydef
- Eliot; it seems like most people who are using it are using it because they were running into a DITA-OT bug where the navtitle element got a different presentation that other, similar elements.
- Robert; I noticed that the navtile @ and element are not doing the same things in DITA-OT; I submitted a fix for that to toolkit yesterday. The responder said she had to use @navtitle because linktext wasn't working. That bug should have been closed by now as well.
- Tom; Megan is using pretty old software, so she also has an old version of the toolkit.
- Robert; if she's using older software, she'd have to go to new software to get the fix.
- Tom; she told me she's planning to upgrade SDL, so that will happen.
- Kris; reading the comments reinforced my POV that it's really time to get rid of this @, not repurpose/rename it. The sooner we can warn pweople, the better. Otherwise people will just continue to use them.
- Keith; I agree, and at least 2 people on the LinkedIn thread had known it was deprecated, and had already moved over to using the navtitle element version.
- Robert; Deb, my team had concerns with other elements besides topicref that use @navtitle but not the navtitle element, i.e., bookmap.
- Scott; but bookmap is a specialization of topicref, so it does have the navtitle element.
- Robert; customers are resistant to change; it will be non-trivial to make this change; it will frustrate people who use/like it. But we'll just have to deal with it. I'm hopeful we can handle this.
- Chris; no matter what, migration to 2.0 will be slow.
- Kris; one point of process; are we ready to move this forward to vote next week?
- Eliot; just Deb's comment, elements like frontmatter don't allow navtitle element, but they do allow topicref @s, including @navtitle. But those elements were never intended to have titles.
- Robert; they shouldhn't have the attribute, but they have topicmeta, which has navtitle element. I'm looking at RNG for 1.3 and frontmatter definitely has topicmeta.
- Tom; looking in XMetal at frontmatter; no navtitle in frontmatter nor does frontmatter includes topicref.
- Robert; that was an unintentional difference; in 1.2 and 1.3 the topicref-atts group doesn't have @navtitle, it's defined separately.
- Eliot; looking again, why did I think it was; it's not.
- Kris; so we don't have an issue in the grammar files? is there any location in bookmap where we need to make navtitle element available where it isn't now? And again; can we vote on it next week?
[TC agreed, will vote on this next week]
10. DITA 2.0 stage two proposals: Vote
Issue #85: Add ph element to certain glossentry elements
UPDATED https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201802/msg00060.html (Hudson, 19 February 2018))
Kris moved, Scott 2nd;
Results:
'yes': Robert Anderson, Deb Bissantz, Bill Burns, Stan Doherty, Kris Eberlein, Richard Hamilton, Nancy Harrison, Alan Hauser, Scott Hudson, Eliot Kimber, Tom Magliery, Chris Nitchie, Keith Schenglie-Roberts, Eric Sirois
'no': 0 votes
Issue # 73: Remove delayed conref domain
https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/dita/download.php/62481/delayed_conref_revised.html (Houser, 12 Feb 2018)
Kris moved, Alan 2nd;
Results:
'yes': Robert Anderson, Deb Bissantz, Bill Burns, Stan Doherty, Kris Eberlein, Richard Hamilton, Nancy Harrison, Alan Hauser, Scott Hudson, Eliot Kimber, Tom Magliery, Chris Nitchie, Keith Schenglie-Roberts, Eric Sirois
'no': 0 votes
11;58 ET close
-- Ms. Nancy Harrison
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