RE: [docbook-tc] Re: db5: info in HTML Tables?

["Grosso, Paul" <pgrosso@ptc.com>]

Sorry for the delay in answering.

I don't have 5.0 at hand to consider the content models
in detail, but in general, no, I wouldn't expect most
CALS table editors or composers to work with such additions.

I don't see those elements in the 4.4 stuff I do have on
my machine.  Have we, as a TC, approved adding such to
the CALS table model for any version yet?

paul

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Stayton [mailto:bobs@sagehill.net] 
> Sent: Monday, 2006 November 06 19:28
> To: Grosso, Paul; DocBook Technical Committee
> Subject: Re: [docbook-tc] Re: db5: info in HTML Tables?
> 
> Hi Paul,
> OK, the table cell argument is not a good one.  I guess I'm 
> looking at 
> DocBook's CALS table markup, and wonder how compatible that 
> is to the CALS 
> standard?  The current CALS table element in DocBook 5 
> contains info, alt, 
> textobject, tgroup (or mediaobject), and caption.  Is the CALS table 
> standard flexible enough to permit the addition of extra 
> elements like this?
> 
> Bob Stayton
> Sagehill Enterprises
> DocBook Consulting
> bobs@sagehill.net
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Grosso, Paul" <pgrosso@ptc.com>
> To: "DocBook Technical Committee" <docbook-tc@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 4:24 PM
> Subject: RE: [docbook-tc] Re: db5: info in HTML Tables?
> 
> 
> I certainly do not object to adding this to the agenda.
> 
> However, I would point out that having non-HTML markup
> *within cells* is very different from having non-html
> markup elsewhere.  Every table model (and every table
> editor UI) always allows "foreign" markup (from the
> incorporating DTD) within the table cell, but not
> necessarily elsewhere within the table model.
> 
> So the fact that other markup is allowed within the
> table cell confers absolutely no strength to the argument
> that non-HTML markup should be allowed elsewhere throughout
> the table model markup.
> 
> I don't find the namespace argument particularly convincing
> either.  If your basis for allowing other markup within
> DocBook's HTML tables is that the elements are DocBook
> elements--and therefore have no need to stick to the HTML
> table model--then there is no point in saying they are HTML
> tables at all.  Invent any markup you want.  But don't
> call them HTML tables, and don't expect tools optimized
> to work with HTML tables to work with them.
> 
> My understanding of the point of allowing HTML tables, as
> well as CALS tables, in DocBook documents was three-fold:
> (1) existing tables (many of which use such markup) could
> more easily be incorporated into DocBook documents,
> (2) existing tools/UIs that facilitate working with such
> tables could be used to work with such tables in DocBook
> documents, and (3) we would be leverage existing knowledge
> of such common table models to simplify creation of
> DocBook tables.
> 
> Changing the (non-table cell content) model of the HTML
> table model does not help support either point 1 or 3
> and potentially destroys point 2.
> 
> paul
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bob Stayton [mailto:bobs@sagehill.net]
> > Sent: Monday, 2006 November 06 02:14
> > To: DocBook Technical Committee; Norman Walsh
> > Subject: [docbook-tc] Re: db5: info in HTML Tables?
> >
> > [responding on the TC list]
> > I think we should discuss this issue in the TC.  db.html.table cells
> > contain markup that is not part of the content model for
> > tables either.
> > It is my understanding that DocBook doesn't contain HTML tables, it
> > contains some DocBook table elements (in the DocBook
> > namespace) that borrow
> > local names from HTML tables.
> >
> > Would anyone object to adding this issue to this month's TC agenda?
> >
> > Bob Stayton
> > Sagehill Enterprises
> > DocBook Consulting
> > bobs@sagehill.net
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Norman Walsh" <ndw@nwalsh.com>
> > To: <docbook@lists.oasis-open.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 1:15 PM
> > Subject: [docbook] Re: db5: info in HTML Tables?
> >
> > / Scott Hudson <scott.hudson@flatironssolutions.com> was 
> heard to say:
> > | I noticed that info is not allowed inside the html.table and
> > html.informaltable
> > | models. Is there a particular reason for this? I think it
> > would still be
> > useful
> > | to track metadata on html tables, even if there isn't any
> > information you
> > would
> > | print from them as part of display.
> > |
> > | cals.table and cals.informaltable both allow info.
> >
> > They aren't allowed because they aren't part of the content model
> > for tables in HTML.
> >
> >
> 
> 
>