RE: [docbook-tc] Surname and Firstname

["Rowland, Larry" <larry.rowland@hp.com>]

Bruce,

Thanks -- both are great suggestions.  

The ordering attribute could easily be added to the personname wrapper.  Given the number of child elements of personname, it might be a little more difficult to determine exactly what it means, but it certainly makes sense for technical information that includes bibliographical information.

For the alternative forms, does it make more sense to simply allow multiple instances of the name elements with an appropriate attribute to designate the purpose of the element or to have an alternate element (such as <altnameform type="romanized">) to handle the various alternatives and let it be presented in whatever form the author provides?

Best Regard,
Larry 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Rosenblum [mailto:bruce@inera.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 7:56 PM
To: Rowland, Larry; DocBook Technical Committee
Subject: Re: [docbook-tc] Surname and Firstname

Larry,

A few quick comments, from the world of STM publishing:

1. An attribute that can be used to give the prefer display order of 
names (given-name followed by surname, or vice versa) can be quite 
helpful. See the NLM DTD for an example 
(http://dtd.nlm.nih.gov/publishing/tag-library/n-gth0.html).

2. Some publishers are adding a secondary name element so the 
author's name can be added in the character set of their native 
language. For example, the American Physical Society publishes author 
names for Chinese, Korean, and Japanese authors in both the 
ideographic and Romanized forms. Having elements for multiple written 
name forms is good to add if you're looking to make changes in this area.

Best regards,

Bruce

At 12:56 PM 2/13/2009, Rowland, Larry wrote:
>I have investigated the issue regarding what to use for names of
>people.  It is quite interesting and the exchange in the mailing
>list that Norm mentioned was fascinating.  However, it did not
>really provide compelling reasons to adopt something other than
>givenname as the complement to surname nor to abandon surname.
>
>As far as standards go, there are a number of them but most seem
>to be very Western oriented (firstname/middlename/lastname) and
>while more consistent than what we currently use, not really
>superior.  Others seem overly complex for what we need.
>
>After considerable additional research on the Web, I did not find
>significant reasons for abandoning the givenname/surname model.
>I recommend replacing firstname with givenname, which is widely
>accepted as a complement to surname.  We should consider
>supplementing it with othername or additionalname to cover things
>like nicknames or maiden names, but simply explaining that
>firstname really means given name seems weak.  If we do go down
>the path of modifying our name elements, attributes may be
>appropriate for specializing the othername/additionalname but
>may not be necessary for our purpose (which is really to allow
>identifying a person without too much cultural bias).  I would
>be happy to pursue what attributes might be appropriate if
>we decide to modify our names.
>
>However, if simply changing the descriptions is what we are going
>to do, here is what I would recommend.
>
>
>For surname
>
>Current:
>
>   surname - A family name; in western cultures the last name
>
>   Description
>
>   A Surname is a family name; in Western cultures, the last name.
>
>Recommended Change:
>
>   surname - An inherited or family name; in western cultures the
>   last name
>
>   Description
>
>   A Surname is an inherited or family name; in Western cultures, the
>   last name.  This is used for the patronymic or matronymic or any
>   name that is based on a persons situation at birth or due to
>   marriage or adoption.
>
>For firstname
>
>Current:
>
>   firstname - The first name of a person
>
>   Description
>
>   The Western-style first name of an author, editor, or other
>   individual.
>
>
>Recommended Change
>
>   firstname - A given name of a person.
>
>   Description
>
>   Use firstname for any given name or chosen name of a person.  This is
>   also used for forenames and nicknames.
>
>Looking forward to discussing this.
>
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Bruce D. Rosenblum
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