RE: [docbook] strict versus transitional XHTML tables [was: DocBook Technical Committee Meeting Minutes: 18 Mar 2003]

["Robert Koberg" <rob@koberg.com>]

Hi,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Grosso [mailto:pgrosso@arbortext.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 3:22 PM

> At 00:05 2003 03 19 +0100, Tobias Reif wrote:
> >Paul Grosso wrote:
> >>As it stands, the XHTML strict table model includes attributes
> >>for both vertical and horizontal cell alignment (as just one
> >>example), so it's hard to be black and white here.  Given how
> >>much presentation XHTML strict already includes, I'm arguing that
> making users use role="glump" instead of bgcolor="green" does more
> harm than good.
>
> We're comparing having an author write:
>
>   <td role="glump">
>
> versus
>
>   <td bgcolor="green">
>
> I'm amazed people are arguing that it makes more sense for
> the author to do the former.

I would definitely argue for the former. Why limit any presentation attributes
if you argue for the latter? I go mainly to (X)HTML, so I am probably biased,
but...

I would much rather do something like:

.glump {
background-color:darkgreen;
color:white;
text-align:center;
vertical-align:middle;
width:25%;
}

than stick in the attributes...

Tables are for tabluar data. They should not be used for layout. To do so is a
hack. With current browsers, you simply do not need them.

>
> Be that as it may, in the latter case, the DocBook stylesheets
> can pick up the bgcolor attribute and use it to generate either:
>
>   XSL-FO:  <fo:table-cell background-color="green">
>
>   XSL-HTML:  <td bgcolor="green">  if you don't mind transitional HTML or
>              <td style="background-color: green">  if you want to use CSS
>
> But in the former case, I don't see how this is going to work.
>
> >What harm does it do?
> >
> >
> >  td.glump {background-color: green}
>
> And where in one's DocBook document does the author put that?
> And if they can't put it somewhere, how does the author get
> green background when they say role="glump"?
>
> And what do you propose to do about XSL-FO?

Use a CSS parser, like:
http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/SAC/

I am surprised that people involved with something like docbook want to mix
concerns.

best,
-Rob
liveSTORYBOARD.com

>
> paul
>
>