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Subject: RE: [docbook] RE: Sections and topics



Thank you for clarifying.
..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Kate Wringe | Tech Writer 2| Sybase
445 Wes Graham Way, Waterloo, ON, N2L 6R2 Canada | Tel: (519) 883-6838 | kate.wringe@sybase.com | www.sybase.com

 


"Rowland, Larry" <larry.rowland@hp.com>

07/27/2010 04:32 PM

To
"Kate.Wringe@sybase.com" <Kate.Wringe@sybase.com>, "rob.cavicchio@emc.com" <rob.cavicchio@emc.com>
cc
"bobs@sagehill.net" <bobs@sagehill.net>, "docbook@lists.oasis-open.org" <docbook@lists.oasis-open.org>, "docbook-tc@lists.oasis-open.org" <docbook-tc@lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject
RE: [docbook] RE: Sections and topics





The assembly does not require using topics.  Conventional DocBook elements like chapter and section can be used as resources.  The introduction of topic was to facilitate development of documentation for which the topic-orientation can be helpful.  The idea was to support reuse of existing content while extending the model for other users.
 
Regards,
Larry Rowland
 
From: Kate.Wringe@sybase.com [mailto:Kate.Wringe@sybase.com]
Sent:
Tuesday, July 27, 2010 2:21 PM
To:
rob.cavicchio@emc.com
Cc:
bobs@sagehill.net; docbook@lists.oasis-open.org; docbook-tc@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject:
RE: [docbook] RE: Sections and topics

 

I am proposing that the traditional DocBook schema allow for sections to appear at the same level as chapters. That is, we allow a book to contain chapters or sections.

This would allow "traditional" DocBook users who want and need to use chapters to continue using them, while allowing other users the flexibility to work with one less level in the hierarchy.


I'm not suggesting that Modular DocBook be abandoned. I think that Modular DocBook has some really useful features and will go a long way to helping DocBook users. However, I am a bit confused as to why the assembly requires the use of the Topic element (i.e., why couldn't the resources also accept chapters and sections?). Will it be possible for users to easily share content between Modular DocBook and the non-modular DocBook? Or is the intent that a team will either write exclusively in Modular DocBook?


Thank you in advance,

Kate




..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Kate Wringe | Tech Writer 2| Sybase
445 Wes Graham Way, Waterloo, ON, N2L 6R2 Canada | Tel: (519) 883-6838 | kate.wringe@sybase.com | www.sybase.com

 

 

<rob.cavicchio@emc.com>

07/27/2010 10:32 AM


To
<Kate.Wringe@sybase.com>, <bobs@sagehill.net>
cc
<docbook@lists.oasis-open.org>, <docbook-tc@lists.oasis-open.org>
Subject
RE: [docbook] RE: Sections and topics

 






I have similar misgivings as Kate. I haven't seen the full proposal for modular content (is it out there?), but I don't think that a whole new solution needs to be designed. I actually like the linear structure of DocBook and the fact that we don't need an entirely separate construct in order to sequence content the way DITA does. I just think we need to tweak the definitions of the section elements so that they are not tied to a particular level in the hierarchy and can be reused in multiple contexts *if desired*. But I don't see that bursting an integrated flow into tiny pieces in order to reuse one of them is necessarily the best solution.

 
 
 
From:
Kate.Wringe@sybase.com [mailto:Kate.Wringe@sybase.com]
Sent:
Tuesday, July 27, 2010 6:50 AM
To:
Bob Stayton
Cc:
docbook@lists.oasis-open.org; docbook-tc@lists.oasis-open.org; Cavicchio, Rob
Subject:
Re: [docbook] RE: Sections and topics

 


Hi Bob


Thank you for responding and providing more information about DocBook 5.1.


When I look at the description of Topic in the Unofficial DocBook 5.1 Definitive Guide, it appears as though Topic is more akin to chapter than section in that you

cannot nest Topics within Topics (http://www.docbook.org/tdg51/en/html/topic.html).

If I have a <Topic> that contains multiple <sections> can I convert one or more of the sections into <Topics> and vice versa?


Thank you,

Kate


..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Kate Wringe | Tech Writer 2| Sybase
445 Wes Graham Way, Waterloo, ON, N2L 6R2 Canada | Tel: (519) 883-6838 | kate.wringe@sybase.com | www.sybase.com

 

 

Bob Stayton <bobs@sagehill.net>

07/26/2010 07:21 PM

 


To
<rob.cavicchio@emc.com>, <Kate.Wringe@sybase.com>, <docbook-tc@lists.oasis-open.org>, <docbook@lists.oasis-open.org>
cc
Subject
Re: [docbook] RE: Sections and topics


 

 






This discussion is of great interest to the DocBook Technical Committee, as we are
currently developing a DocBook solution for modular content.  I believe most of the
problems that have been mentioned here will be addressed.

The first step toward modular content was the introduction of the topic element, which
will debut in DocBook 5.1.  A topic element is meant as a standalone module of
content, ready to be assembled into larger documents.  Its structure is similar to
section.  The placement of topic within existing DocBook elements like book and
chapter is not very important, as those will serve primarily as storage boxes for
topic elements to be assembled.

The other addition in 5.1 will be the assembly element and its descendant elements
like structure, resource and module.  An assembly is similar to a DITA map, in that it
contains a set of pointers that define the content and structure of the assembled
document, but not the content itself.  But a DocBook assembly is quite different from
a DITA map in many ways.

One of the features will be an option to include content without including the wrapper
element, which permits you to avoid duplicate ID values in an assembled document.
Another is the renderas attribute, which allows you to convert a topic to a chapter,
appendix, or section as needed, or vice-versa.

You can expect to soon see public announcements regarding release of the new schemas
in beta form for testing, as well as some documentation and tools for processing.

Bob Stayton
Sagehill Enterprises
bobs@sagehill.net


----- Original Message -----
From: <rob.cavicchio@emc.com>
To: <Kate.Wringe@sybase.com>; <docbook-tc@lists.oasis-open.org>;
<docbook@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:50 PM
Subject: [docbook] RE: Sections and topics


Kate.Wringe@sybase.com [mailto:Kate.Wringe@sybase.com] wrote:

>
Here's the problem that I am increasingly running into: We have a <section> in one
book that we want to reuse as a <chapter> in another book and vice versa.
<


This does not solve your immediate issue, but I think that the time has really come to
allow <section> at any level. The whole chapter vs. section thing is very
static-book-oriented and does not lend itself well to information reuse.


*************************
Rob Cavicchio
Principal Technical Writer & Information Architect
EMC Captiva
Information Intelligence Group
EMC Corporation
3721 Valley Centre Drive, Ste 200
San Diego, CA 92130

P: (858) 320-1208
F: (858) 320-1010
E: rob.cavicchio@emc.com

The opinions expressed here are my personal opinions. Content published here is not
read or approved in advance by EMC and does not necessarily reflect the views and
opinions of EMC.




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