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Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
OK, I am now learning to be very specific. I am referring to ebMS v3. Matthew MacKenzie wrote: > John, > > Where did this vision come from? I didn't get the memo. Certainly, the > ebMS team has communicated and moved our work in that direction, but I > don't see other ebStandards explicitly moving toward that vision. > > -matt > > Chiusano Joseph wrote: > >> Sounds great - where can I get more OASIS-official public information on >> this? And also on ebXML v2? This is highly useful and valuable >> information. >> >> Kind Regards, >> Joseph Chiusano >> Booz Allen Hamilton >> Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World >> >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com] Sent: Thursday, >>> February 03, 2005 9:30 AM >>> To: David Webber (XML) >>> Cc: Chiusano Joseph; Monica J. Martin; Duane Nickull; >>> dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com; >>> tony.scott@gm.com; john.l.jackson@gm.com; psnack@aiag.org; >>> ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com; golsen@contivo.com; John >>> Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net; tdean@criticaltech.net; >>> ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James Bryce Clark >>> Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin >>> >>> That would be the list, thanks David. >>> Joe, the ebMS v3 direction has been (and I think still is) to >>> encompass the WS-I Basic Profile, the WS-Security and other WS* >>> specs, thereby moving towards convergence. A curious point is that we >>> don't see that kind of outreach yet from the other side.... >>> >>> john >>> >>> David Webber (XML) wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Joe, >>>> >>>> That is exactly what we are qualifiying here in ebSOA!!! >>>> >>>> We have BPSS V2, ebMS V3, Registey V3 - but no updated architecture >>>> that documents the new capabilities that all this enables. >>>> >>>> Thanks, DW >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com> >>>> To: "john hardin" <john@sanghainteractive.com>; "Monica J. Martin" >>>> <Monica.Martin@Sun.COM>; "David RR Webber" >>> >>> <david@drrw.info>; "Duane >>> >>>> Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com>; <dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com>; >>>> <jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com>; <tony.scott@gm.com>; >>>> <john.l.jackson@gm.com>; <psnack@aiag.org>; >>> >>> <ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com>; >>> >>>> <ronschuldt@msn.com>; <golsen@contivo.com>; "John Casillas" >>>> <johnc@mbproject.org>; <mjyader@comcast.net>; >>>> <tdean@criticaltech.net>; <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>; >>> >>> "James Bryce Clark" >>> >>> >>>> <jamie.clark@oasis-open.org> >>>> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:29 AM >>>> Subject: RE: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin >>>> >>>> >>>> <Quote> >>>> a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 is >>>> closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!) </Quote> >>>> >>>> Can you please explain what "ebXML v3" is? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Joe >>>> >>>> Joseph Chiusano >>>> Booz Allen Hamilton >>>> Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: john hardin [mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com] >>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:58 AM >>>>> To: Monica J. Martin; David RR Webber; Duane Nickull; >>>>> dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com; jturpin@cyclonecommerce.com; >>>>> tony.scott@gm.com; john.l.jackson@gm.com; psnack@aiag.org; >>>>> ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com; ronschuldt@msn.com; >>> >>> golsen@contivo.com; John >>> >>>>> Casillas; mjyader@comcast.net; tdean@criticaltech.net; >>>>> ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org; James Bryce Clark >>>>> Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin >>>>> >>>>> Thanks Monica and thanks to all for the warm welcome. >>>>> >>>>> I have copied a number of folks on this, because I would like to >>>>> enlist their assistance for the ebSOA editing activities or >>> >>> just for >>> >>>>> ideas as we move forward. Also Jamie and Dale asked me about >>>>> addressing the ebXML-jc group. I had a good conversation with Jamie >>>>> the other night, and got some direction from both him and >>> >>> from Duane. >>> >>>>> I would very much like to address the ebXML-jc, and get a braindump >>>>> how the two groups need to dovetail. I'll plan on being on the call >>>>> next Wed if allowed. >>>>> >>>>> My primary vision for the ebSOA group is to move forward >>> >>> with the work >>> >>>>> from the charter (pattern catalog) and act as a facilitator towards >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> interoperability among the upcoming business process >>> >>> frameworks (WS*, >>> >>>>> ebXML and SemWeb are three that are working to gain dominance). The >>>>> request-response model is a very simplistic view that isn't >>> >>> currently >>> >>>>> mapping well onto the true complexity that large industries have >>>>> developed in their shared business processes. For example, >>> >>> no one will >>> >>>>> argue today that inventory visibility for the automotive >>> >>> industry is a >>> >>>>> request-response model between two partners. Healthcare is another >>>>> area that is very complex, and requires multiple >>> >>> interactions between >>> >>>>> large numbers of process participants to complete the information >>>>> exchange, with forks and decisions during the execution. >>>>> >>>>> The other reality is that process participants require constant >>>>> realtime feeds of information from many points in the >>> >>> process, which >>> >>>>> are owned and offered by various companies of various sizes and IT >>>>> capabilities. >>>>> This spells out, to me at least, the need for a network operating >>>>> framework, where processes run in an "app fabric" >>>>> that is dependable and very open. Then we can layer event causation >>>>> techniques and other things like shared industry process B.A.M. on >>>>> top. The network REALLY IS the computer.... >>>>> >>>>> To accomplish this kind of integration, I believe that we need to: >>>>> >>>>> a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 is >>>>> closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!) >>>>> >>>>> b) gather and document, then publish and evangelize, real world use >>>>> cases that prove SOA principles using ebXML and WS and >>> >>> shine a light >>> >>>>> on successful implementations >>>>> >>>>> c) include both WS* and ebXML patterns, along with SemWeb and agent >>>>> patterns (no rocks thrown, please - the SemWeb/Agent stuff is the >>>>> long-term target) >>>>> >>>>> d) work with WS-I and the specs to ensure that we have consistent >>>>> direction towards convergence >>>>> >>>>> My belief is that the entire IT industry is poised on the >>> >>> verge of a >>> >>>>> major break in what I think is so far a stagnation. The >>> >>> potential of >>> >>>>> the internet is clear - and everyone is aware that it's >>> >>> potential is >>> >>>>> more than just human readable web pages. We all feel it, >>> >>> business has >>> >>>>> been preparing (somewhat) for it, and the engineers all >>> >>> want to build >>> >>>>> it. >>>>> >>>>> However, this level of information integration won't happen unless: >>>>> >>>>> a) the path to implementation of standards based messaging between >>>>> partner, or producer/consumer, applications, is very clear >>>>> >>>>> b) all players involved in complex processes can participate >>>>> >>>>> c) the integration effort doesn't involve such a long, drawn out >>>>> mapping effort everytime (this kills progress on the entire >>> >>> movement) >>> >>> >>>>> The industry will continue to stall until we solve some of these >>>>> problems. I would like to help by completing the patterns and the >>>>> catalog of patterns, and publish the use cases to describe >>> >>> it. There >>> >>>>> also needs to be a major outreach effort to all industry >>> >>> groups that >>> >>>>> are building shared business processes (which by the way, look much >>>>> more complex than simple request-response models). >>>>> >>>>> That's it, I guess.... >>>>> >>>>> John >>>>> 313.930.5323 >>>>> >>>>> Monica J. Martin wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> John, >>>>>> On a related point (to ebSOA that is), previously Matt >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> MacKenzie was >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> the ebSOA representative to the ebXML-jc. Perhaps you >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> could provide >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> some insight into your overall vision of the ebSOA TC based on its >>>>>> original charter. I've asked Jamie Clark to give an update >>> >>> on ebSOA >>> >>>>>> and SOA TC efforts. In the past, it was anticipated that >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ebSOA would >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> assist in defining the next generation architecture for >>> >>> ebXML. Your >>> >>>>>> thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ~~~~~~~~~ >>>>> john c hardin >>>>> sanghainteractive.com >>>>> 313.930.5323 cell >>>>> mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com >>>>> >>>>> "The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in >>> >>> the image >>> >>>>> of a global village." >>>>> >>>>> Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> ~~~~~~~~~ >>> john c hardin >>> sanghainteractive.com >>> 313.930.5323 cell >>> mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com >>> >>> "The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in the image >>> of a global village." >>> >>> Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962 >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > > > -- ~~~~~~~~~ john c hardin sanghainteractive.com 313.930.5323 cell mailto:john@sanghainteractive.com "The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in the image of a global village." Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
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