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Subject: Re: [ebxml-bp] BPSS evolution


Title: Message
John,
 
I like what you are saying here.
 
BCM is one solution - its not intended to be 'the' solution - aka a religion.
 
What I would see as important is that with say a BCM implementation done
and working - as part of an SOA deployment - it shows that the BPSS foundation
includes all the right "hooks" and integration to do this.  (Right now I know there
are gaps we need to complete to make this fully available).
 
Those same mechanisms can then purposed for other flavours of deployment
with confidence.
 
The great thing about BCM is that its not programming - its a methodology - so
it definately brings that highlevel business first support to make BPSS technology
accessible to a broad audience of business users.
 
Thanks, DW.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 11:04 AM
Subject: RE: [ebxml-bp] BPSS evolution

It's interesting how the same discussions are going on in several lists.  Here is a posting I made this morning on the CCTS list.  The bottom line is that to really solve the problem, instead of just pushing it around, we DO need higher level organization of business objects, business events, and business commitments.  Otherwise we never truly move beyond being a programming language.
 
We cannot solve this problem in this group, but we can make sure we do not destroy our ability to fit into the larger business solution.  We can have very close integration with CPPA / ebMS / RegRep and maintain our ability to be an implementation of REA and BRV models.   In my opinion this group needs our prime focus to be interoperability in ebXML, but must not become just another orchestration programming language.
 
John
 

Subject: RE: CCWG in the next TMG meeting

One critical aspect addressed by the UMM, which is not addressed by RUP or OAG/MDA, is the collaborative execution of business. The UMM provides key infrastructure for looking at collaborative business state management, especially with the close incorporation of REA.

Without UMM there is a big hole in the organization of business requirements for execution over a distributed set of participants. The orchestration mechanisms being developed today do not provide any infrastructure for evaluating business executability at the macro level, but instead only at the micro level.

This once again leads to (non-UMM) software/service devlopers "interpreting" the business intent, instead of (UMM) being able to directly evaluate business integrety at the macro level (BRV) and conformance of the service implementation to those requirements.

We must make progress on the REA, BET, and BCP deliverables so that the layering of business execution on top of service orchestration is direct, distributed, and measurable.

The CCTS and especially the CCUG made a very good start and expressing how the BET discovery in the BRV phase leads to increased quality in the CC models.

I look at UMM as a business modeling extension that can be applied to both RUP and OAG/MDA.

Thanks,

John

-----Original Message-----

From: Duane Nickull [mailto:duane@yellowdragonsoft.com]

Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 3:35 AM

To: UN/CEFACT Core Component WG

Cc: klausn@attglobal.net; ch@mminf.univie.ac.at; kenji.itoh@jastpro.or.jp

Subject: Re: CCWG in the next TMG meeting

 

Mark:

I fully agree with your statement. We recently completed an entire

project using Core Components and BIE's without ever using the UMM. In

fact, we found UMM to be a complete emcubrance for the actual CCTS

implementation work.

Where UMM did provide very valuable help however, was to ensure that all

the stakeholder's needs for the final project were represented. Without

UMM, there was a very high likelyhood that we may have neglected a

crucial BIE that would have rendered the project invalid.

I also wish to point out that at runtime, the software does not care (or

cannot even determine) if UMM as used, therefore, I assert that for

software architects, UMM is highly irrelevant at runtime. It is very

valuable however for planning an architecture and developing the

messages that will ultimately ensure success within the end implmentation.

It was also clear that jus using plain common sense works just as well.

Another alternative that I am becoming a big fan of is the Rose Unified

Process (now owned by IBM). I think there is a lot of merit to

investigating RUP as an alternative to UMM. Another one is the OMG's MDA!!!

Before the flames begin, please do not intepret my mesage to be anti

UMM. I like the whole idea of model driven architecture.

Duane Nickull

(Speaking completely unencumbered by the potential for email flames

derived fromthe preceding statement)

;-)

CRAWFORD, Mark wrote:

>Hisano,

>

>Clearly there is a need for the ccsd to align with UMM. The UMM users

>guide should also align with ccts. CCTS and UMM should be complimentary, but not necessarily aligned as CCTS can be used without UMM outside of CEFACT. I would think it is not a question of which was first, but a question of what is best to support using both CCTS and UMM by TBG.

>Mark Crawford

>Research Fellow - LMI XML Lead

>W3C Advisory Committee, OASIS, RosettaNet Representative

>Vice Chair - OASIS UBL TC & Chair Naming and Design Rules Subcommittee

>Chair - UN/CEFACT XML Syntax Working Group

>Editor - UN/CEFACT Core Components

>______

>Logistics Management Institute

>2000 Corporate Ridge, McLean, VA 22102-7805

>(703) 917-7177 Fax (703) 917-7481

>Wireless (703) 655-4810

>mcrawford@lmi.org

>http://www.lmi.org

>"Opportunity is what you make of it"

>

>

>-----Original Message-----

>From: Sugamata <hsedi@attglobal.net>

>To: UN/CEFACT Core Component WG <uncefact-tmg-ccwg@listman.disa.org>

>CC: uncefact-tmg-ccwg@listman.disa.org

><uncefact-tmg-ccwg@listman.disa.org>; klausn@attglobal.net <klausn@attglobal.net>; ch@mminf.univie.ac.at <ch@mminf.univie.ac.at>; kenji.itoh@jastpro.or.jp <kenji.itoh@jastpro.or.jp>

>Sent: Sat Nov 01 01:49:53 2003

>Subject: CCWG in the next TMG meeting

>

>Hi Mary Kay,

>I'm wondering the CCWG/CCSD works within the TMG.

>The current CCTS and CC User's guide are challenged by UMM group. They

>are claiming CCTS and CC User's guide are inconsistent with the UMM

>Usres Guide which were introduced after CCTS and CC User's guide. Are

>their any who will fight back to their claim ?

>

>Are there any CCWG/CCSD meetings within the next TMG meeting in

>December ? I'm ready to join the CCWG meeting in the next TMG if it

>will be held.

>

>Regards.

>

>----------------------------------------------

>Hisanao Sugamata

> ECOM:

> Electronic Commerce Promotion Council of Japan

> TEL +81-3-3436-7568 FAX +81-3-3436-7570

> URL: http://www.ecom.or.jp

>----------------------------------------------



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