Groups - Weekly ebBP Teleconference Call modified

[monica.martin@sun.com]

Weekly ebBP Teleconference Call has been modified by Monica Martin (monica.martin@sun.com).

Date:  Monday, 23 February 2004
Time:  12:00pm - 01:00pm Pacific Time

Event Description:
866 882 3998
International 865 525 0769
9081038

12 noon PST
1 p.m. MST
3 p.m. EST
8 p.m. BST
9 p.m. CET
4 a.m. Taipei, Perth Tuesday
5 a.m. Tokyo, Tuesday
7 a.m. Sydney, Tuesday

Agenda:
1. Approval of meeting minutes, 16 Feb 2004.
2. Finalize transaction patterns discussion, Roberts.
3. If ready, signals discussion, Roberts and Mukkamala.
4. CBPC brief, Nita Sharma and William McCarthy.
5. Context management proposal by David Webber (if time allows).

Deferred for a short time: Decide on WI 12 with new proposal.
Note: If time doesn't allow for (5) above, we will address 1 March 2004.



Minutes:
ebBP TC Teleconference
16 Feb 2004 (holiday)

Present:
Abrell
Dodd
Dubray
Fischer
Moberg
Nagahashi
Roberts
St. Amand
Tell
Webber
Yunker
Martin

Guest:
Bill McCarthy

Excused:
Krishnan

Agenda:

    1. Approval of minutes. Minutes to be voted on:
    26 January, 2 February, 4-6 February, and 9 February 2004

Approved, no objections.
Quorum reached.

    2. Finalize WI 7: Versioning, Nagahashi

Namespace URI
OASIS defines a standard URI for namespaces
Future BPSS specification

Roberts: What does OASIS recommend? Queried Eve Maler
http: resolves to a location or URN-based. Prefers http: resolve to a location. Schema and the namespace can be the same; schema exists at the location. 
Nagahashi: No specific preference. Proposed standard for OASIS specifications.
Gutentag trying to specify where schemas sit and what is the implied namespace.
Nagahashi: Use OASIS standard URI or URN.
Roberts: Have OASIS make the standard. Anticipate an answer this week. Long URL with a version could also be used.
Moberg: oasis-open.org Draft on OASIS document file names.
Namespace and file name are the same. Conform to document file naming convention. Doesn't give the name of the URL either.
Webber: Best proposal from Matt MacKenzie at Adobe who has given a proposed solution to OASIS to consider.
Moberg: Redirect URL to where we need to.
Webber: Norman Walsh gave clear indication of what it should be. Have single URL that doesn't change and points to the most current version.
Moberg: Contact OASIS and relevant groups to get direction. RDDL, WSDL items are confusing at times. Reference convention was last worked on February 2003.

References:
Roberts Query to Eve Maler: http://www.oasis-open.org/archives/ebxml-bp/200402/msg00183.html
TC Process on File Naming OASIS: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/guidelines.php#filenaming,
Draft OASIS Filenaming Guidelines: http://www.oasis-open.org/spectools/docs/chairs-filenaming-02.html

Nagahashi: Proposal to take OASIS recommendation. Agree on namespace URI to URN.
Moberg second.
No objections.

    3. Discussion, WI 12: WSDL and other business process support, Dubray

Dubray: Invoke single web services operations in BPSS. Within a BPSS for a BTA, allow to invoke a web service. The QOS is compromised. Could lose the notion of signals. Another possible approach to mapping to WSDL, one
partner with BPSS and other not. Did address hybrid case. 
Martin: What about MEP != business transaction patterns.
Moberg: Allows interpolating extension one-way or request-response MEP for WSDL. No strong objections raised. What about the purity of the previous model? Agreed to generalization such as transactions proposal by Roberts. Do we want to extend from BT or freely interpolate? Provide hints that doesn't adhere to business transactions.
Dubray: BT semantics are not being addressed here.
Moberg: Can consider both proposals separately.
Roberts: Do we build this as an extension outside of BPSS. 
Moberg: Might be nice to make this a specification item.
Yunker: In process modeling, the WSDL only represents one side of the transaction. 
Dubray: That is a choice that is made here.
Yunker: How can you do that when with a web services implementations within a partner's enterprise?
Dubray: Service provider doesn't need to know the consumer to implement the service.
Yunker: Couldn't you augment this to handle in Requesting and Responding Business Activity.
Moberg: Has proposed for a 3.0 extension by Roberts.
Yunker: How does one WSDL work? Assume BPS is published by owner of a set of service or as a standard mechanism.
Roberts: Couldn't you require both roles to be implemented?
Dubray: Each party must have a WSDL definition published. A single WSDL approach could be used but he is not recommending that. Invoke maps to a receive and send. Requires 1-1 mapping. Influences course of binary collaboration.
Martin: Additional functions may be considered in late versions (3.0).
Moberg: Subsequent control flow could reference the value that the WSDL operation returns. Assumes message is acceptable to the XPath. How do you reference message parts, such as i.e. choice over more than one element. Seems to be useful addition if we can resolve for control flow.
Dubray: Faults for an operation can map to failures.
Moberg: Need XPath into boolean values. Separate how to support a WSDL based transaction. Signals aren't support there. Talk to other groups like WS-CAF.
Dubray: May have to define specific operations for signals.
Moberg: Put out to a web service with a Get. Support multi-party, though. Early to commit to other technologies.
Dubray: This is a different protocol specification item.
Moberg: Can we use in binary or multi-party?
Dubray: Yes. Limitations exist to attach role to the operation level. Can't invert role or change roles.
Moberg: Role always occurs in the referencing not reference context.
Dubray: Helps in binary collaboration.
Roberts: Bind Studio did a version of their editor using WSDL import.

Reference: http://www.bindsys.com/bindstudio2/documentation.htm

Moberg: Suggest this proposal being spliced into the MPC white paper.
Tell: Why doesn't this doesn't fit into a specialized view of BT?
Dubray: Role issue exists. OperationActivity looks like BTA. Abstract out what it is. Affects BTA semantics.
Tell: Why not be a specialized BT not a BTA with additional constraints on semantics.
Dubray: Keep completely separate.
Tell: Communication between two parties are better used in BT.
Dubray: Can still design a BT pattern that doesn't require signals. Could override that.
Yunker: BSI != WSDL operations - Add a mechanism to map business actions to the service description (WSDL). Not comfortable with mixing business definitions in the WSDL. 
Roberts: When we actually send the business document, we have an external pointer to the document. Can't we treat WSDL with the same distance? Try to introduce a separate explicit pattern for WSDL-extension to business action. Agree with Tell.
Dubray: Need more integral way to use WSDL in BPSS.
Tell: Need one mechanism for message exchange.
Dubray: A BSI could invoke an operation. Keep as simple as possible.
Webber: For these use cases and roles, you can use WSDL in this way for v2.0. Do more in v3.0. Look at IV&I use cases.
Dubray: Do we want the BT semantics? Can realign proposal. This puts constraints on the WSDL.
Moberg: OperationActivity is yet another choice besides BTA. How does this differ from BT substitution group? If we open it up, users could be open to risk.
Tell: Limit artifacts in BPSS.

Resolve next week, 23 Feb 2004.

    4. Discussion, WI 22: Support for business transaction patterns, Roberts/Moberg.

Roberts: Should reference within BPSS - the BT patterns and business signals. Introduce a new element called signals that mirrors business document element structure.
Moberg: +1
Roberts: Next, expand BT patterns. Link back to signal definitions from within the BT patterns. This BT could generate any of these signals.
Next, roles should be changed. Also have a proposal on GUID and GUIDREF.
Caveat is that CPPA 3.0 has an option to override.
Moberg: Need a major overhaul on roles to accommodate MPC to accommodate reusability.
Roberts: Multi-party BPSS achieved easily.
Moberg: Where do we establish the role binding?
Roberts: My proposal is to bind at CollaborationActivity. Accommodates references and referencing. Can hard code the values or provide a default, such as for non-repudiation.
Martin: Prefer the default option.
Moberg: Need to get input from Hima Mukkamala.
Roberts: Original patterns say these are minimum times.
Tell: Agree with default value usage. A late binding with CPPA you can say no on the override.
Roberts: XMLSpy is not effective to handle restrictions. What about compatibility? Leave BT in as currently defined with a note in the document to handle for backward compatibility. 
Moberg: Could introduce an abstract element with a BT type with a restriction on that.
Roberts: Will consider that.

    5. Other business 
	White paper
	Kavi simple vote for symposium
	Change time for calls for European teams
	CBPC brief 23 Feb 2004

Change of meetings?
Put Kavi vote.

For next week 23 Feb:
CBPC brief 
Context management proposal by David Webber
Finalize transaction patterns discussion.
Decide on WI 12 with new proposal.
Signals discussion

For week 1 March
Work Item 28 on Mapping to other ebXML Specifications (Moberg)
TBD

For week 8 March
TBD

ACTIONS
+++++++
MOBERG: PROVIDE A ROLE INPUT IN CONTEXT. DONE
DUBRAY: WSDL PROPOSAL UPDATE. PENDING
ROBERTS: PROVIDE PROPOSALS FOR BT PATTERNS, BUSINESS SIGNALS. PENDING
MARTIN/ROBERTS/MUKKAMALA: ROBERTS WORK WITH MUKKAMALA ON SIGNAL PROPOSAL. PENDING
MARTIN: GET REFERENCE FROM DALE MOBERG ON FILE NAMING; GET INQUIRY LETTER ON URL-URN FROM ROBERTS. DONE 20 FEB 2004
MARTIN: KAVI VOTE ON TC TIME CHANGE. DONE 20 FEB 2004
MARTIN: KAVI VOTE ON OASIS SYMPOSIUM AND MEETING WITH OTHER TCS. DONE 20 FEB 2004


This event is one in a list of recurring events.
Other event dates in this series:

Monday, 12 January 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 19 January 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 26 January 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 02 February 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 09 February 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 16 February 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 01 March 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 08 March 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 15 March 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 22 March 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 29 March 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 05 April 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 12 April 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 19 April 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 26 April 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 03 May 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 10 May 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 17 May 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 24 May 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 31 May 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 07 June 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 14 June 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 21 June 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 28 June 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 05 July 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 12 July 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 19 July 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 26 July 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 02 August 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 09 August 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 16 August 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 23 August 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 30 August 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 06 September 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 13 September 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 20 September 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 27 September 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
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Monday, 25 October 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 01 November 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 08 November 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time
Monday, 15 November 2004, 12:00pm to 01:00pm Pacific Time

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