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Subject: [no subject]
Obviously some people feel they want to do this to solve an immediate
need using schema XSD in this way - and they will have to ensure
their partners can support what they are doing. =20
Clearly long term the context driven approach provides a
stable coherent model across CPA/BPSS/payloads that as you note -
is then transparent to the BPSS itself - and therefore allows us to
give implementers the flexibility they need without depending on=20
syntax features of XSD - (which there is no guarantee how the
W3C / schema tool implementers / may or may not change).
Thanks, DW.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: martin.me.roberts@bt.com=20
To: david@drrw.info ; ebxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.org=20
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 4:07 AM
Subject: RE: [ebxml-bp] Late Binding
David,
I was just responding to a request from Anders to allow this =
override. I have no axe to grind here. Personally I am in favour of =
the BPSS being completely unaware of Late Binding Issues.
Martin Roberts
xml designer,
BT Exact
e-mail: martin.me.roberts@bt.com
tel: +44(0) 1473 609785 clickdial
fax: +44(0) 1473 609834
Intranet Site :http://twiki.btlabs.bt.co.uk/twiki=20
-----Original Message-----
From: David RR Webber [mailto:david@drrw.info]=20
Sent: 08 March 2004 18:05
To: Roberts,MME,Martin,XSG3 R; ebxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [ebxml-bp] Late Binding
Martin,
Wooowha! We leapt too far here IMHO.
From a simple extension to allow one small capability to wholesale
replacement.
I believe we need to use these schema techniques with caution.
OAGi found they got mixed results with this feature of Schema
and the support provided by the different parsers - and errors
generated. We definately do not want to end up with a=20
schema that fails in certain circumstances.
Remind me why we are using this substitution group again - isn't
much more clear in this instance - and we can just provide people
with parameters they can set to control the timetoperform =
behaviour...?
Thanks, DW.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: martin.me.roberts@bt.com=20
To: ebxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.org=20
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 11:59 AM
Subject: [ebxml-bp] Late Binding
Dear all,=20
I had a discussion with Anders on the Late Binding problem =
and we decided that if we changed the TimeToPerform and associated =
fields from Attributes to Elements. The reason for this is it will =
allow the use of substitution group style replacement of these fields to =
allow functionDefinition to be used.
If this is acceptable, may be we should make a wholesale =
move away from attributes to elements throughout.=20
Martin Roberts
xml designer,
BT Exact
e-mail: martin.me.roberts@bt.com
tel: +44(0) 1473 609785 clickdial
fax: +44(0) 1473 609834
Intranet Site :http://twiki.btlabs.bt.co.uk/twiki=20
pp 16 Floor 5, Orion Building, Adastral Park, Martlesham, Ipswich =
IP5 3RE, UK=20
British Telecommunications plc
Registered office: 81 Newgate Street London EC1A 7AJ
Registered in England no. 1800000=20
This electronic message contains information from British =
Telecommunications plc which may be privileged or confidential. The =
information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) or entity =
named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any =
disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this =
information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic message =
in error, please notify us by telephone or email (to the numbers or =
address above) immediately.
------=_NextPart_000_03FE_01C405BC.547A2CA0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR>
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Martin,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Understood.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From the theme of the discussion on our =
call=20
yesterday - allowing this</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>behaviour and syntax nuance for just =
this one area=20
of the BPSS is </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>as far as we need to go with this right =
now=20
IMHO.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Obviously some people feel they want to =
do this to=20
solve an immediate</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>need using schema XSD in this way - and =
they will=20
have to ensure</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>their partners can support what they =
are=20
doing. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Clearly long term the context driven =
approach=20
provides a</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>stable coherent model across=20
CPA/BPSS/payloads that as you note -</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>is then transparent to the BPSS itself =
- and=20
therefore allows us to</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>give implementers the flexibility they =
need without=20
depending on </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>syntax features of XSD - (which there =
is no=20
guarantee how the</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>W3C / schema tool implementers =
/ may or may=20
not change).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks, DW.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dmartin.me.roberts@bt.com=20
href=3D"mailto:martin.me.roberts@bt.com";>martin.me.roberts@bt.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Ddavid@drrw.info=20
href=3D"mailto:david@drrw.info";>david@drrw.info</A> ; <A=20
title=3Debxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:ebxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.org";>ebxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.o=
rg</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 09, 2004 =
4:07=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [ebxml-bp] Late=20
Binding</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D600345908-09032004><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>David,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D600345908-09032004> <FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I was just responding to a request from =
Anders to allow=20
this override. I have no axe to grind here. Personally I =
am in=20
favour of the BPSS being completely unaware of Late Binding=20
Issues.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
<P><SPAN lang=3Den-gb><I><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
color=3D#008080>Martin=20
Roberts</FONT></I><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><BR></FONT><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000080 size=3D1>xml =
designer,</FONT><BR><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000080 size=3D1>BT =
Exact</FONT><BR><B></B><B><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D1>e-mail:</FONT></B><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#000000 size=3D1>=20
<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:martin.me.roberts@bt.com";>martin.me.roberts@bt.com</A></FO=
NT><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D1><BR></FONT><B></B><B><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D1>tel:</FONT></B><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#000000 size=3D1>=20
+44(0) 1473 609785</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
size=3D1> =20
</FONT></SPAN><A=20
href=3D"http://clickdial.bt.co.uk/clickdial?001609785.cld";><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-gb><U><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D1>clickdial</FONT></U></SPAN></A><SPAN =
lang=3Den-gb><BR><B></B><B><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D1>fax:</FONT></B><FONT =
face=3DArial color=3D#000000=20
size=3D1> +44(0)</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D1></FONT> =
<FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D1>1473 609834<BR></FONT><B><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D1>Intranet Site :</FONT></B><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D1><A=20
=
href=3D"http://twiki.btlabs.bt.co.uk/twiki";>http://twiki.btlabs.bt.co.uk/=
twiki</A></FONT></SPAN>=20
</P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
David RR=20
Webber [mailto:david@drrw.info] <BR><B>Sent:</B> 08 March 2004=20
18:05<BR><B>To:</B> Roberts,MME,Martin,XSG3 R;=20
ebxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [ebxml-bp] Late =
Binding<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Martin,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Wooowha! We leapt too far =
here=20
IMHO.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From a simple extension to allow =
one small=20
capability to wholesale</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>replacement.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I believe we need to use these =
schema=20
techniques with caution.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>OAGi found they got mixed results =
with this=20
feature of Schema</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>and the support provided by the =
different=20
parsers - and errors</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>generated. We =
definately do not=20
want to end up with a </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>schema that fails in certain=20
circumstances.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Remind me why we are using this =
substitution=20
group again - isn't</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>much more clear in this instance - =
and we can=20
just provide people</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>with parameters they can set to =
control the=20
timetoperform behaviour...?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks, DW.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dmartin.me.roberts@bt.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:martin.me.roberts@bt.com";>martin.me.roberts@bt.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Debxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.org=20
=
href=3D"mailto:ebxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.org";>ebxml-bp@lists.oasis-open.o=
rg</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 08, =
2004 11:59=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [ebxml-bp] Late=20
Binding</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><!-- Converted from text/rtf format -->
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dear all,</FONT>=20
<BR> <FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>I=20
had a discussion with Anders on the Late Binding problem and we =
decided=20
that if we changed the TimeToPerform and associated fields from =
Attributes=20
to Elements. The reason for this is it will allow the use of =
substitution group style replacement of these fields to allow=20
functionDefinition to be used.</FONT></P>
<P> <FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>If=20
this is acceptable, may be we should make a wholesale move away =
from=20
attributes to elements throughout.</FONT> </P>
<P><SPAN lang=3Den-gb><I><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" =
color=3D#008080>Martin=20
Roberts</FONT></I><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><BR></FONT><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#000080 size=3D2>xml =
designer,</FONT><BR><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000080 size=3D2>BT =
Exact</FONT><BR><B></B><B></B><B><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>e-mail:</FONT></B><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D2> martin.me.roberts@bt.com</FONT><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman"><BR></FONT><B></B><B><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>tel:</FONT></B><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2> +44(0) 1473=20
609785</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"> =
</FONT></SPAN><A=20
href=3D"http://clickdial.bt.co.uk/clickdial?001609785.cld";><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-gb><U><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
color=3D#0000ff>clickdial</FONT></U></SPAN></A><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-gb><BR><B></B><B></B><B><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2>fax:</FONT></B><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>=20
+44(0)</FONT><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"></FONT> <FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D2>1473 609834<BR></FONT><B><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Intranet Site :</FONT></B></SPAN><A=20
href=3D"http://twiki.btlabs.bt.co.uk/twiki";><SPAN =
lang=3Den-gb><U></U><U><FONT=20
face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
=
size=3D2>http://twiki.btlabs.bt.co.uk/twiki</FONT></U></SPAN></A><SPAN=20
lang=3Den-gb></SPAN> <BR><SPAN lang=3Den-gb><FONT face=3DArial =
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