Re: [ebxml-bp] New Tutorial for BPSS V2 PPT

[David RR Webber <david@drrw.info>]

Sally,

BPSS in isolation is just an engine without a chassis,
fuel, car or transmission.

We need to show people a holistic approach so they
understand how they analysize their business needs,
then formalize them as a BPSS model, and how that
then relates to their existing IT infrastructure 
and middleware.

Of course we could claim that we are not in this 
business at all - and all we do is create Schema
definitions and specifications - but that I believe
is the way of the Dodo.

DW.


> In that case why are you focusing on BPSS when V2.0 is still a work in
> progress. You could just as easily made your presentation on BCM. Which given
> the audience and your work on ePr is the more appropriate focus. 
> Your presentation on BPSS is misleading for reasons I spelled out previously.
> And the BPSS TC has no need for this haste to make a presentation.
> Sally
> 
> David RR Webber <david@drrw.info> wrote:
> Sally,
>  
> It is indeed true that I am approaching this from the "big picture" - "How to
> do Business Process" - 
> and defining that from a "BCM style" perspective - and then showing how BPSS
> goes about
> doing its thing.  So there are slides where the complete picture is
> presented.  I believe that is 
> essential - as people will be using BPSS with a mix of components - and they
> need to
> understand *all* that and the steps they have to think about.   It also
> demonstrates our
> competency in understanding that whole picture.  That's the intent of the
> Section 1 - that 
> talks about what the BP world is - so we establish the common ground.
>  
> Now - it would also seem that BPSS V2 schema is playing 'catch-up' with the
> that
> big world and PPT view very rapidly!
>  
> The new variables feature-set discussed on todays call clearly implements the
> 
> context aspects.
>  
> At this point however - I think we need to call a little bit of a truce on
> getting this 
> tutorial finished! ; -)
>  
> Once John and Dale provide us with the new and improved Schema - then I can
> re-visit on all this.
>  
> What this is teaching us however - that aiming high is a good thing.  Where
> I'm
> coming from here - is based on working on IV&I and other projects this past 
> year - and seeing that *if* BPSS can address most all the aspects that this
> PPT is talking to - then indeed we will have the technology of choice for
> implementers and designers.   Notice I did (amazingly!) leave off the field
> known V3 features however.
>  
> It's this core V2 functional set that I'm wanting to showcase and articulate
> - 
> because I do firmly believe we have a unique chance here to seize the
> initiative and show people that BPSS gives you the most comprehensive
> and sensible toolset today for modelling BPM - without being "exotic" - 
> and is therefore something that average people can aspire too.
>  
> We can do this using V2 right now - as the model generates a fully 
> compliant V2 XML instance [well it did till Dale and John changed 
> everything last week ; -) - and that's good though I'm not complaining!].
>  
> Being able to take the "swim lane" activity diagrams that people seem
> so fond of - and make them into real working BPSS - is critical.  I now
> believe we are almost to that point - for both binary and multiparty
> collaborations - as I just demonstrated with Matthew's scenario.
>  
> And the more of these 'worked example' templates we have the
> easier this will become.
>  
> So - summarizing - yes - the PPT is setting the bar high - and I believe
> our release V2 will be able to meet this challenge.   It is about a 
> synergy of all these components - and we should not be afraid of
> showing people how they can do all these aspects - with real
> examples that they can follow.
>  
> I had some feedback today - where someone thanked me - as 
> having read the UN specification 1.10 - and read the tutorial - they
> were able to see why and how V2 is delivering a better product, 
> and one that they can understand how to use - as opposed to 
> a cold specification that is interesting but academic.
>  
> If we don't go there, who else will?  
>  
> Cheers, DW.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Sally St. Amand 
> To: David RR Webber 
> Cc: BPSS ebXML 
> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 5:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [ebxml-bp] New Tutorial for BPSS V2 PPT
> 
> 
> 
> David
> 
>  
> 
> Some observations on your presentation ebXML BPSS v2.0 BPM Tutorial How to
> Quickly Create Business Process Models, July 2004:
> 
>  
> 
> First it is confusing. If it is intended to be a tutorial on BPSS v2.0 it
> goes beyond the scope of the effort to dispatch a version 2, which is
> suggested in the presentation.
> 
>  
> 
> In slide 3 labeled OASIS ebXML in a Nutshell there is no mention of
> collaboration; business collaboration is the core of BPSS.
> 
>  
> 
> In slide 6 & 8 I am assuming that the intent is to provide the big picture
> for BPSS. While I concur that BPSS is a core component of SOA I think there
> is less than certainty as to what the components are. Your getting ahead will
> undoubtedly lead to confusion. There is no argument that business process is
> integral to the next technology to be widely adopted in the ecommerce space.
> The question is how it is represented. There are several “answers” many of
> which on the surface appear alike. It is an arena requiring nuance to achieve
> the business goals.
> 
>  
> 
> In slide 10 labeled Building a BPSS, you have included components outside of
> BPSS. In the subsequent slides you are presenting conclusions at the same
> time we are still formulating the nuances of v2.0. This puts your tutorial in
> the position of being the tail that ways the dog.
> 
>  
> 
> Slide 23 Collaboration Content & Context—creates an expectation that all 3
> are being handled coequally in BPSS; they are not. Collaboration is the guts
> of BPSS; Content is an issue we are grappling with; Context is an important
> concept that needs to fully addressed. 
> 
>  
> 
> Slide 30 labeled Completing a BPSS Template is premature.
> 
> For example we to need to give further consideration to something as basic as
> whether a business transaction is atomic; this is based on a use case that
> was provided and discussed at some length by Matthew Arrott (CommerceNet). He
> introduced “listeners” who are not principles in the transaction, but play a
> role. His use case has given us a slightly different view (maybe 10° not a
> start over) that is representative of the nuance involved.
> 
>  
> 
> I could go on but hopefully these specifics make my point that what you are
> doing is good and useful. You are just a little bit ahead of your time; thank
> you Panasonic.
> 
>  
> 
> Sally
> 
>  
> 
> 
> David RR Webber <david@drrw.info> wrote: Monica,
> 
> Good - I look forward to Sally's comments as well.
> 
> I have to say though that there appears to be a gap
> between what I have already been able to implement
> and demonstrate, and am actively involved in projects
> developing - and what you think BPSS is.
> 
> BPSS is different things to different people,
> and that obviously does not mean that everyone is
> right, or everyone is wrong. People will find good
> and interesting ways of working with the specification.
> 
> I'm also responding to the many postings we keep getting
> to the list - saying - but there's an issue on how this works -
> etc, when we already have answers to most all of these -
> and therefore we need to have a ready reference where
> people can go to to get those, and keep updating it with
> new parts - as a living document - as we move forward.
> 
> Also - I'm trying to provide a complete presentation.
> From my long experience as VP Biz Dev - there are
> questions you have to answer in a presentation - and
> you cannot just sweep them off to the side. And we
> want to encourage people to send us details we
> can include - as they develop great examples and
> resource sites, and so on.
> 
> If this is a serious tutorial it has to answer all the
> basic FAQ that adopters and implementers need - rather
> than being a very limited introduction that falls short of
> empowering people to start using BPSS today.
> 
> Driving adoption is, as with all standards work, the biggest
> challenge - and providing an effective on-ramp to enable
> people to start using BPSS today for their daily business
> work and projects is a critical need.
> 
> Thanks, DW
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Monica J. Martin" 
> To: "David RR Webber" 
> Cc: "BPSS ebXML" 
> Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 10:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [ebxml-bp] New Tutorial for BPSS V2 PPT
> 
> 
> >
> > > Webber:
> > >
>
http://drrw.net/visualscripts/BPSS-V2/Introducing%20BPSS%20V2%20-%20Tutorial.ppt
> > >
> > >
> > > This includes changes and updates as suggested by Monica, and all the
> > > latest feature stuff - including signals and more.
> > >
> >
> > mm1: David, comments included in the notes sections of the ppt. Sally
> > St. Amand also has indicated she would also review the presentation.
> > This brief should concentrate on the core ebBP v2.0 functionality rather
> > than tools and extensions. Thanks.
> >
> 
> 
> 


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