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Subject: Re: Some Issues with the Reliable Messaging Specification inVersion1.0 of ebMS
Gee, I was wondering if you had disappeared off the face of the earth :-) Around here, the view is that the configuration information always ends up in a database, whether its contents are derived from a CPA, GUI tool, or faxes. Another thing that has (unfortunately) not been addressed in ebXML is an abstract upper interface to the Message Service spec. Such an interface would resolve a lot of the ambiguities resulting from the CPA vs no CPA dichotomy as well as perhaps some of the other things the Arvola Chan brought up. Its on the list of possible CPPA work items, hidden under the title "Middleware Interoperability". Of course this is joint work among CPPA, MSG, and perhaps BP. Another item on the proposed CPPA work list is the missing appendix on how CPA constructs appear in the message header. The recent "no CPA" discussions along with a colleague's difficulty in parsing the Message Service spec because of the "no CPA" ambiguities have made it clear that that appendix has to be much more than a compendium of elements in the message header. There will have to be a lot of normative discussion that pins down the meaning of things in the Message Service spec for the case where there is a CPA. This one also has to be joint with the MSG team. Tomorrow I will be posting the latest version of the CPPA new work and loose ends list that I will be discussing at next week's F2F. A bunch of additional loose ends have surfaced along with further ideas for enhancement items. Have you contacted Dale about attending next week's CPPA F2F remotely? Dale is arranging some kind of web-based conferencing setup for those who can't attend in person. At least 5 people will be attending remotely. We are also going to discuss the possibility of coordinating with the MSG team so that future F2F meetings of the two teams are always at the same time and place. The discussions of the past few days have underlined the need for coordination between the two teams. I hope that you will be able to hook in next week and that coordination of future meetings will allow your presence in person. Regards, Marty ************************************************************************************* Martin W. Sachs IBM T. J. Watson Research Center P. O. B. 704 Yorktown Hts, NY 10598 914-784-7287; IBM tie line 863-7287 Notes address: Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM Internet address: mwsachs @ us.ibm.com ************************************************************************************* christopher ferris <chris.ferris@east.sun.com>@Sun.COM on 07/18/2001 12:12:34 PM Please respond to ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org Sent by: Chris.Ferris@Sun.COM To: ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org cc: Subject: Re: Some Issues with the Reliable Messaging Specification in Version1.0 of ebMS David, While I certainly agree that it "... isn't feasibile to create *manual* database entries for ...", no one ever said that this was a manual process;-) Also, when you say "No, you really don't need a CPA." and follow that with a statement that suggests that you "can't imagine a system without some sort of TP database", you are in fact arguing against yourself. What I think is a clearer position would be to state that there is no requirement that there be a physical CPA *document* conforming to the CPP/CPA specification for the ebXML MSH to function. However, as you correctly cite, there needs to be something. What the ebXML MS spec calls for is that the information that is referenced as defined in the CPA as defined by the CPP/CPA specification MUST be available to the runtime. Whether that is by virtue of defaults that the system knows of through some other means or whether these values are derived from some manner of TP database or whether they are read directly from a document that conforms to the CPP/CPA specification is implementation specific detail about which the specification should make no claims whatsoever, IMHO. The issue of "bootstrap" situations has (unfortunately) not been addressed within ebXML formally in terms of a specification or whitepaper that defines a normative approach to dynamic negotiation of a CPA to enable the exchange of messages via ebXML MS. This is (I believe) where there is much confusion and disagreement. It is certainly a topic that should be undertaken jointly by the MS and CPP/CPA TCs as part of their work going forward. Cheers, Chris David Fischer wrote: > > No, you really don't need a CPA. While I can't image a system without some sort > of TP database, there can easily be defaults which allow "bootstrap" situations. > EDI does much the same thing with Open EDI -- Automatic Trading Partner Entry. > When you receive a message which does not match any entry in the database, > automatically create one with the transport values set to the incoming message > values and anything which can be gleaned from the MessageHeader with all other > values set to defaults. This is the only way large scale communications in a > world-wide economy is going to work. It is simply not feasible to create manual > database entries for hundreds of thousands of potential customers (like the case > of Sears or L.L.Bean). This will be a must for small quantity/value, large > volume organizations. > > In large value propositions, you will probably want a more structured approach. > This is where CPA/CPP will excel. > > Regards, > > David Fischer > Drummond Group. > ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from this elist send a message with the single word "unsubscribe" in the body to: ebxml-msg-request@lists.oasis-open.org
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