Re: [ebxml-msg] Re: Comments on the 1.09 about signed AcknowledgementMessage

[Doug Bunting <dougb62@yahoo.com>]

David,

I believe you mean section 4.1.4.2 and not 11.1.4.  This section should be
referenced from 7.3.2.6.

There are at least two issues in this I raised in my "first half" email and
not seen any response:
1) As Shimamura-san mentions, the text in 4.1.4.2 is vague enough to be
useless.  The definition you've provided below doesn't really help though it
might be worthwhile somewhere in the document.  What does "consistent" mean?
Do these words describe the ds:Reference elements in the eb:Acknowledgment
or the list in the ds:Signature element?  In either case, we've said the
ds:Reference should be consistent with the corresponding eb:Reference
element and eb:Reference should use the cid: scheme if and only if the
payload is part of the current message.  Use of ds:Reference pointing to
payloads in the original message violates these recommendations and
requirements.  Is that the intention?  What should happen if the
ds:Signature from the original message didn't reference all payloads in that
message?  What should happen if the original message wasn't signed at all?

2) Why must a signed Acknowledgment also sign the contents of the original
message (when the sender's signatures would have locked that down already)?
This raises the implementation cost and means a signed acknowledgment can't
be just a signed acknowledgment.  (No, I'm not sure what this document
containing eb:Acknowledgment/ds:Reference+ and ds:Signature would be called.
Probably NRR in your terms.)

On a much more minor level, "a ds:Reference element" is incorrect.  If it's
necessary to sign the contents of the original message, one ds:Reference
allows you to sign only the soap:Envelope or your favourite payload.

thanx,
    doug

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Fischer" <david@drummondgroup.com>
To: "SHIMAMURA Masayoshi" <shima.masa@jp.fujitsu.com>;
<ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Wednesday, 05 December 2001 06:01
Subject: RE: [ebxml-msg] Re: Comments on the 1.09 about signed
Acknowledgement Message


A signed message is a message with a ds:Signature element.  An
Acknowledgment
Message is one with an Acknowledgment element.  A signed Acknowledgment
message
would be one with both.  There is no need for a ds:Signature element inside
the
Acknowledgment element.

The spec already says that a signed Acknowledgment Message MUST include a
ds:Reference element within the Acknowledgment element 7.3.2.6 and there is
a
special section about signing intermediate Acknowledgments 11.1.4.

Regards,

David.

-----Original Message-----
From: SHIMAMURA Masayoshi [mailto:shima.masa@jp.fujitsu.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 3:52 AM
To: ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [ebxml-msg] Re: Comments on the 1.09 about signed
Acknowledgement Message

Does someone know answer to the questions?

> From: SHIMAMURA Masayoshi <shima.masa@jp.fujitsu.com>
> Subject: [ebxml-msg] Comments on the 1.09 about signed Acknowledgement
Message
> To: ebxml-msg@lists.oasis-open.org
> Message-id: <20011130190044.3882.SHIMA.MASA@jp.fujitsu.com>
>
> There is no definition of "signed Acknowledgement Message" in the
> specification. What is signed Acknowledgement Message? What conditions
> must be satisfied?
>
>   condition 1: The Acknowledgement Message must have Signature element
>   condition 2: The Acknowledgement Message must have Acknowledgement
>                element with ds:Reference element
>   condition 3: Both conditions 1 and 2 at same time
>
> Which?
>
>
> And also, there is no description about how to create ds:Reference
> element in Acknowledgement element. V1.09 says:
>
>   4.1.4.2 Persistent Signed Receipt
>   An ebXML Message that has been digitally signed MAY be acknowledged
>   with an Acknowledgment Message that itself is digitally signed in the
>   manner described in the previous section. The Acknowledgment Message
>   MUST contain a ds:Reference element consistent with that contained in
>   the ds:Signature element of the original message.
>                                                                  (P. 27)
>
> Is the description applied to ds:Reference element in ds:Signature
> element in Acknowledgment Message? Or applied to ds:Reference element in
> Acknowledgment element in Acknowledgment Message? Or applied to both?


Regards,

--
SHIMAMURA Masayoshi <shima.masa@jp.fujitsu.com>
TEL:+81-45-476-4590(ext.7128-4241)  FAX:+81-45-476-4726(ext.7128-6783)
Planning Dep., Strategic Planning Div., Software Group, FUJITSU LIMITED


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