Re: [election-services] Defining a trusted voting process - one disabilities concern

["David Webber \(XML\)" <david@drrw.info>]

Simon,

We may be able to use OASIS CAM to help with that.

I noticed that the EML 4.0 mentions schematron already,
basically CAM allows yo to do more than schematron
can.

However - the bigger point is that we would want
implementers to bring issues with schema back to us
directly and get those solved.  That's clearly the intended
path here.

Having the trusted process model will greatly ameloriate
those issues is my experience (eg registry and ebXML )
where looking at the raw schema is one thing - understanding
how to build the process interactions around that is key!

Thanks, DW

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Simon Bain" <sibain@tendotzero.com>
To: "Paul Spencer" <paul.spencer@boynings.co.uk>
Cc: "eml" <election-services@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 11:27 AM
Subject: RE: [election-services] Defining a trusted voting process - one
disabilities concern


> Ithas certain extensibility built in yes.
> I am not sure how far this goes as I have not gone through it totally.
>
> However the sub schemas should also come from the TC so that they are
> taken as part of the standard. By creating a schema / dtd in this way you
> will then be able to keep hold of the standard, whilst allowing people to
> make / suggest changes without the need to worry about the core schema /
> dtd having to be changed for everyone.
>
> Cheers
> Simon
> -- 
> Simon Bain
> TENdotZERO
> ----------
> Tel:    0845 056 3377
>         44 1234 359090
> Mobile: 44 (0)7793 769 846
>
> <quote who="Paul Spencer">
> > I realised after posting an earlier reply that I should have mentioned
the
> > extensibility of EML. I think it does what you are suggesting here.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Simon Bain [mailto:sibain@tendotzero.com]
> >> Sent: 21 February 2005 09:14
> >> To: Paul Spencer
> >> Cc: eml
> >> Subject: RE: [election-services] Defining a trusted voting process -
one
> >> disabilities concern
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi.
> >>
> >> I am one of those which does implement EML. I am also of the view and
> >> was
> >> very much of this oppinion during the development of the code in the
> >> 2003
> >> local elections that standards should not change continually, as this
> >> gives people reasons to not use it and/or continual software updates
> >> which
> >> customers then get annoyed with.
> >>
> >> However all standards should be extensible. This does 2 things
> >> 1) Allows users to input their own tags. (Can be dangerous and not
allow
> >> for open cross border use)
> >> 2) Allows the standards body to define sub schemas which then can be
> >> taken
> >> into the main schema if required by the using authority.
> >>
> >> What a standard should not become is static, which I know you are not
> >> suggesting. A standard should also not be closed to new thoughts and
> >> suggestions, even after it has been approved and announced. Again
> >> something I know that you are not suggesting.
> >>
> >>
> >> So in my oppinion there should be a stable almost non changing standard
> >> with enough extensibility placed in it to allow other smaller more
> >> specific schemas to be defined by the standards body and then adopted
by
> >> users. These would plug n to the main schema, making it extensible and
> >> controllable.
> >>
> >> This would then allow for the additions of items after due
consideration
> >> and thought to be added in a sub schema. For ideas put over not only by
> >> David but also by others as they start to use the schema. The standard
> >> still remains under the control of the standards body but allows for a
> >> much easier adoption and sharing ability, and also allow it to grow and
> >> prosper. After all in 98 at the SGML conference in Paris this is what
> >> most
> >> users and vendors were screaming for in the new XML syntax. Not to have
> >> a
> >> fixed DTD one which was not extensible and one that could not move with
> >> the rest of the World.
> >>
> >> Cheers from a very cold Bedford
> >> Simon
> >> --
> >> Simon Bain
> >> TENdotZERO
> >> ----------
> >> Tel:    0845 056 3377
> >>         44 1234 359090
> >> Mobile: 44 (0)7793 769 846
> >>
> >> <quote who="Paul Spencer">
> >> > Simon,
> >> >
> >> > The basic point is that people are currently implementing EML, and
> >> won't
> >> > do
> >> > so if the specification is changing continually. So it is more that
we
> >> > should consider changes as part of an improvement cycle over some
> >> > specified
> >> > time period. If David is looking at defining and agreeing an
electoral
> >> > process, that will take some time (perhaps 6-12 months within OASIS,
> >> but
> >> > considerably longer to get any nation to agree to adopt it) and
> >> EML could
> >> > then be adjusted to fit.
> >> >
> >> > At least, that is my understanding and opinion. Perhaps John
> >> Borras has a
> >> > different view.
> >> >
> >> > Regards
> >> >
> >> > Paul
> >> >
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: Simon Bain [mailto:sibain@tendotzero.com]
> >> >> Sent: 20 February 2005 07:57
> >> >> To: Paul Spencer
> >> >> Cc: "David Webber " <david@drrw.info>,
> >> >> election-services@lists.oasis-open.org"@tendotzero.com
> >> >> Subject: RE: [election-services] Defining a trusted voting
> >> process - one
> >> >> disabilities concern
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Paul hi.
> >> >>
> >> >> What do you mean by "stability".
> >> >> Do you mean that you do not want any updates to the EML spec or do
> >> you
> >> >> mean that you mean that any future updates should be pllaced
> >> on hold for
> >> >> a
> >> >> given period of time?
> >> >>
> >> >> All the best
> >> >> Simon
> >> >> --
> >> >> Simon Bain
> >> >> TENdotZERO
> >> >> ----------
> >> >> Tel:    0845 056 3377
> >> >>         44 1234 359090
> >> >> Mobile: 44 (0)7793 769 846
> >> >>
> >> >> <quote who="Paul Spencer">
> >> >> > v4 has been released. We are looking for some stability at the
> >> >> moment, but
> >> >> > that does not mean that we don't want to continue to move
forwards.
> >> >> John
> >> >> > Borras chairs the TC, and this would be a subject for the meeting
> >> he
> >> >> is
> >> >> > suggesting.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Regards
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Paul
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >> From: David Webber (XML) [mailto:david@drrw.info]
> >> >> >> Sent: 19 February 2005 16:31
> >> >> >> To: Paul Spencer; election-services@lists.oasis-open.org
> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [election-services] Defining a trusted voting
> >> >> process - one
> >> >> >> disabilities concern
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Paul,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Just reviewed the EML docs and schemas and sent some public
> >> comments
> >> >> >> to the OASIS comments list.  Some of this can be addressed now -
> >> but
> >> >> >> other matters are going to need more work.  Are we on a timetable
> >> to
> >> >> >> release EML 4.0 here - or do we have another release cycle here
> >> >> >> to use up?  Otherwise a 4.5 release to catch these other matters
> >> >> >> clearly is another option.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Thanks, DW
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > David,
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Have you read the EML documents? This is a start on a viable
> >> >> process.
> >> >> >> At
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> > time, we felt we needed a reference process to help us define
> >> >> >> the schemas.
> >> >> >> > We also felt that this process would vary a lot
> >> >> >> internationally. However,
> >> >> >> > there are certain key points (mainly to do with trust) that can
> >> be
> >> >> >> > standardised on an international basis.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > I would love to see the OASIS E&VSTC get involved in this, but
> >> >> >> I wonder if
> >> >> >> > OASIS is the right place for this. On the other hand, it could
> >> >> >> be the only
> >> >> >> > place that would take a truly international (rather than
> >> >> >> US-centric) view.
> >> >> >> > Also, from a personal view, having spent a considerable time
> >> >> helping
> >> >> >> get
> >> >> >> EML
> >> >> >> > to the stage it is, I would like any new initiative to use it.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the
> >> >> >> roster of the OASIS TC), go to
> >> >> >>
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/election-services/mem
> >> >> > bers/leave_workgroup.php.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the
> >> roster
> >> >> of
> >> >> > the OASIS TC), go to
> >> >> >
> >> >
> >
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/election-services/members/leave
> >> _workgroup.php.
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
>
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