RE: [emergency-comment] Re: EDXL-RM additional =?UTF-8?Q?issues=2E=2E=2E?==?UTF-8?Q?=2E=3F?=

["David RR Webber \(XML\)" <david@drrw.info>]

Rex,

We're certainly right on the tip of that spear with the CAM toolkit for NIEM IEPDs work we are doing!

But I believe we are at a excellent point with that work - we've been able to distill the easy step-by-step guide.

However - the wheels of government turn slowly - so it will probably be after the NIEM conference end of September before we can push this out more broadly to folks.

Just don't chew away your fingers in the meantime... ; -)

Thanks, DW

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [emergency-comment] Re: EDXL-RM additional issues....?
From: Rex Brooks <rexb@starbourne.com>
Date: Tue, July 28, 2009 6:09 pm
To: "David RR Webber (XML)" <david@drrw.info>
Cc: emergency-comment@lists.oasis-open.org, Timothy Grapes
<tgrapes@evotecinc.com>, "Gooch,Martena M." <MARTENA.M.GOOCH@saic.com>,
emergency-msg@lists.oasis-open.org, hamgva@cox.net, "Gilmore,Timothy"
<TIMOTHY.D.GILMORE@saic.com>

Thanks David,

The examples actually come from a fairly early draft and we never saw
fit to change them because they are meant to be illustrative. I forgot
how literal-minded even I am when looking at someone else's example. I
grokked what you said right away. This is something we need to remember,
and, to be honest, one reason I want to use a structural tool like
Enterprise Architect to create the reference implementation
simultaneously with the specification. That way we can generate examples
directly from the specification. However, I am finding that it almost
requires a process-nazi mentality, and that's totally
counter-productive. How do you show people the advantage of something
that has to be done correctly first? Pioneering is an expletive-deleted!

Cheers,
Rex

David RR Webber (XML) wrote:
> Rex,
>
> The examples are whacko - but I suspect the XSD schema itself is fine.
>
> This is in part one issue I'd pointed to with the cross-reference to
> NIEM and the dictionary.
>
> Becuase NIEM "borrowed" liberally from CIQ - without formally using
> the schemas - we have items such as Address and PersonFirstName et al
> - that show up in EM, XNAL, and NC namespaces - so which one are we using?
>
> Well it is clear if you look at the schema - but mostly people can't
> grok that at the machine level - so have a nice cross-reference
> spreadsheet helps human understanding of the mappings.
>
> Any - back to XML examples in the documentation - the way the EDXL XSD
> is constructed - you DO NOT need the namespace prefixes in the XML
> instance - because it is ONLY the type reference that uses the
> namespace to denote what type definition is used.
>
> So - <xsd:element name="DavesElement" type="xnal:Organization"
> minOccurs="1"/>
>
> does not mean I have to use xnal:DavesElement - NO! its just
> <DavesElement>Example</DavesElement>
>
> Hope that is clear. If anyone is confused - just use CAM toolkit to
> generate you examples! (sourceforge.net - camprocessor for the download)
>
> However - back to documentation - this should have simple XML
> instances in without the namespaces.
>
> Thanks, DW
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [emergency-comment] Re: EDXL-RM additional issues....?
> From: Rex Brooks <rexb@starbourne.com>
> Date: Tue, July 28, 2009 12:35 pm
> To: "Gilmore, Timothy" <TIMOTHY.D.GILMORE@saic.com>
> Cc: emergency-comment@lists.oasis-open.org, Timothy Grapes
> <tgrapes@evotecinc.com>, "Gooch, Martena M."
> <MARTENA.M.GOOCH@saic.com>,
> emergency-msg@lists.oasis-open.org, hamgva@cox.net
>
> Thanks Tim,
>
> This is not addressed in the pending ECSL-RM Errata since we could
> only
> address comments which were made to us previously. At this point, I
> would not favor taking the time away from working on EDXL SitRep to
> focus back on the RM Errata, which we only just got voted out of the
> subcommittee for the EM TC decision. at the next EM TC meeting.
>
> These xml example issues, while they may be a concern, are
> non-normative
> unlike the broken cross-reference links in the Conformance Section
> which
> directly affect the ability to check conformance, so might not be
> addressed in an Errata, depending on the SC's recommendation to
> the TC.
>
> However, I am asking Gary Ham to take a look at these instances,
> adding
> him to the addressees as well as including the EM-Msg SC in this
> reply.
>
> Cheers,
> Rex
>
> Gilmore, Timothy wrote:
> >
> > All,
> >
> > One of our new software developers came across some EDXL-RM issues
> > that I’m not if they have been addressed yet. However, I am
> passing
> > his information along to get added or noted for feedback and reply.
> >
> > * For example, there are some inconsistencies in the use of
> namespaces
> > between the documentation and examples. For importing and
> displaying,
> > I am ignoring namespaces, since we don't really care as long as the
> > XML validates correctly and the actual node name is correct. But for
> > producing a new message, it would be nice to be a little more
> > definitive, since we don't know how strict a receiving organization
> > will be. Part of it may be my limited understanding of namespace
> > syntax in an Xml document. For example, There is a LocationType
> > element defined on page 127 of the EDLX-RM standard. LocationType
> > specifies an Address element of type xal:AddressType. The example on
> > page 59 shows it being used in the ScheduleInformation element. The
> > syntax is: *
> >
> > * *
> >
> > * <rm:Address> *
> >
> > * <xal:Country></ xal:Country> *
> >
> > * ... *
> >
> > * </rm:Address> *
> >
> > * *
> >
> > * I assumed that the "rm" was used since <Address> was resource
> > metadata for <Location>. But then if you look at page 126 where
> > AddressType is used in the <AdditionalContactInformation>
> element, it
> > uses the syntax: *
> >
> > * *
> >
> > * <xal:Address> *
> >
> > * <xal:Country></ xal:Country> *
> >
> > * ... *
> >
> > * </xal:Address> *
> >
> > * *
> >
> > * And then if you look further on page 126, the <PartyName> element
> > uses the "xnl" namespace, but <Addresses> and <ContactNumbers> use
> > "xpil". It states at the top of page 126 that PartyType is in the
> > "xpil" namespace, so I don't know if these are typos, or if I just
> > don't have a good understanding of how to cascade namespaces. *
> >
> > * *
> >
> > * On top of that, some of the example Xml that I downloaded from
> their
> > website are missing required elements, but have additional elements
> > that don't appear in the standard. As for these, I just ignore the
> > extra elements, and go strictly by what it says in the standard. *
> >
> > * *
> >
> > * Overall, it seems like the documentation is a little immature. *
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > * Timothy D. Gilmore * | SAIC
> >
> > Senior Test Engineer | ILPSG | NIMS SC | NIMS STEP
> >
> > phone: 606.274.2063 | fax: 606.274.2012
> >
> > mobile: 606.219.7882 | email: gilmoret@us.saic.com
> > <mailto:gilmoret@us.saic.com <#Compose>>
> >
> > P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
> >
>
>
> --
> Rex Brooks
> President, CEO
> Starbourne Communications Design
> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
> Berkeley, CA 94702
> Tel: 510-898-0670
>
>
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--
Rex Brooks
President, CEO
Starbourne Communications Design
GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
Berkeley, CA 94702
Tel: 510-898-0670


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