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Subject: RE: Question about CAP


Hi Norm,

I'm sorry if my answer frustrates, but the specification at stage 1.1 
doesn't say anything directly on these specific issues. I have to use 
what the specification actually says and apply it as best I can.  I'm 
sorry I can't give you an authoritative answer.

My best advice at this point is to take the <sent> dateTime value for 
the CAP MessageID and consider it as defining the Time Zone of the 
issuing agency/office.

In regard to case you cite for an <effective> dateTime before a time 
change and an <expires> afterward, these values are defined only for 
the <area> associated with the <info> element, so you should  be able 
to look up the Time Zone based on the <area>. This is not dependent 
on the location of the CAP issuing office.

I'm doing my best to answer your questions. I apologize, if that's 
insufficient.

Cheers,
Rex



>THANKS
>
>FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS WHICH ARE MORE TO MY ISSUE
>
>1) REGARDLESS OF TIME OF YEAR ... IS <sent> THE CURRENT LOCAL TIME?
>...OR IS IT LOCAL STANDARD TIME?
>
>2) The <effective> and <expires> TAGS ARE FORMATTED THE SAME AS <sent>
>SO IF THE <effective> TIME IS BEFORE THE DAYLIGHT TIME CHANGE AND THE
><expires> IS AFTER TIME CHANGE IS THE RECIPIENT EXPECTED TO KNOW THIS
>AND SEE THIS REFLECTED IN THE TAG VALUE?
>
>3) WHAT'S THE POINT OF KNOWING THE LOCAL TIME OF THE CAP ISSUING OFFICE
>IF THE LOCATION OF THE CAP ISSUING OFFICE IS NOT KNOWN. I DON'T SEE A
>TAG THAT GIVES THAT INFO SO WHAT'S THE POINT OF KNOWING THE LOCAL TIME
>OF THE CAP ISSUING OFFICE?
>
>NORM
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com]
>Sent: March 14, 2008 12:18 PM
>To: Paulsen,Norm [Ontario]; Rex Brooks
>Cc: Elysa Jones
>Subject: RE: Question about CAP
>
>Hi Norm, Elysa,
>
>I was afraid this might be the issue. NOAA-NWS is slightly
>non-conformant, so you would have to ask them about the details of their
>implementation. The dateTime for <sent> SHOULD be for the location of
>the sender at the time the message was issued and identified by the
>MessageID. That would, most likely, be for the CAP-issuing office
>location as you infer.
>
>
>
>
>However, when the message is issued by NOAA, I believe, though I could
>be wrong, that the <sent> dateTime is for the NOAA-NWS HQ through which
>alert messages are issued. That would account for the same offset in
>California and New York.
>
>You are correct. The <alert> <sent> dateTime is for the message, not for
>the <area> associated with the <info> which contains the Onset Date/Time
>(onset) and Effective Date/Time (effective) directly related to the
>incident/event.
>
>I hope that helps.
>
>Cheers,
>Rex
>
>
>At 11:20 AM -0400 3/14/08, Paulsen,Norm [Ontario] wrote:
>>Rex
>>
>>Thanks for the response and the offer to help....
>>
>>It is the <sent> tag in the <alert> block..
>>
>>Couple of U.S. examples below...
>>
>><alert>
>>	<identifier>
>>	NOAA-NWS-ALERTS California 2008-03-13T10:37:44-04:00
>>	</identifier>
>>	<sender>w-nws.webmaster@noaa.gov</sender>
>>	<sent>2008-03-13T10:37:44-04:00</sent>
>>	<status>Actual</status>
>>	<msgType>Alert</msgType>
>>	<scope>Public</scope>
>>	<note>
>>		Current Watches, Warnings and Advisories for California
>Issued by the
>>National Weather Service
>>	</note>
>>	<references>
>>	http://www.weather.gov/alerts/ca.html
>>	</references>
>>	<info> .... </info>
>>	<info> .... </info>
>>	<info> .... </info>
>>	<info> .... </info>
>></alert>
>>
>>And the same for New York State:
>>
>><alert>
>>	<identifier>
>>	NOAA-NWS-ALERTS New York 2008-03-13T10:42:25-04:00
>>	</identifier>
>>	<sender>w-nws.webmaster@noaa.gov</sender>
>>	<sent>2008-03-13T10:42:25-04:00</sent>
>>	<status>Actual</status>
>>	<msgType>Alert</msgType>
>>	<scope>Public</scope>
>>	<note>
>>	Current Watches, Warnings and Advisories for New York Issued by
>the
>>National Weather Service
>>	</note>
>>	<references>
>>	http://www.weather.gov/alerts/ny.html
>>	</references>
>>	<info> .... </info>
>>	<info> .... </info>
>>	<info> .... </info>
>>	<info> .... </info>
>></alert>
>>
>>Both have -04:00 as the time zone modifier. The <identifier> tag notes
>  >California for one alert and New York for the other alert.
>>
>>Since they are both -04:00, I assume the <sent> tag is referring to the
>
>>time it was in the location of the office where the CAP alert was
>>generated regardless of where the hazard was for. Looks like an Eastern
>
>>time zone based on -04.
>>
>>If true, to know if -04:00 is EDT (Eastern Daylight)or AST (Atlantic
>>Standard) I would need to know the location of the CAP issuing office.
>>The CAP standard document uses a Daylight example so it appears its not
>
>>just a local standard time offset, but assuming I even have a need to
>>know the time at the location of the issuing office how would I know
>>which one it is?
>>
>>Is there a place to tag the location and timezone of the issuing office
>
>>without having to resort to a local lookup table? A lookup table would
>>require maintenance which could more easily be done with a tag for this
>
>>info.
>>
>>In the end, daylight or not, UTC can be properly calculated but if
>>someone in California were to disseminate it locally, they would have
>>to work from <sent> to UTC to Pacific time or use what is later found
>>in the <description> tag???
>>
>>If this is how its meant to be, what's the point? If I need to know the
>
>>local time at the issuing office then I would need to know the time
>>zone of the issuing office so as to properly process this information.
>>
>>However, if I don't need to know (and I haven't a reason figured out
>>yet why I would), why not just put UTC time in the <sent> tag.
>>
>>Thanks
>>Norm
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com]
>>Sent: March 14, 2008 10:54 AM
>>To: Elysa Jones; Rex Brooks
>>Cc: Paulsen,Norm [Ontario]
>>Subject: Re: Question about CAP
>>
>>Hi Norm,
>>
>>I would be happy to answer your question. However, I'm not sure what is
>
>>referred to by "offset value" and to which element is applied. I did a
>>quick search of the document and neither 'offset' nor 'offset value'
>>occurs in the document, so I am assuming that you are referring to a
>>specific implementation issue, so if you could clarify that for me, I
>>will do my best to answer.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Rex
>>
>>At 8:39 AM -0500 3/14/08, Elysa Jones wrote:
>>>Rex,
>>>
>>>Meet Norm Paulsen of Environment Canada.   We were on a call today
>>>with Norm's organization and OASIS staff.  They are interested in
>>>joining us to participate with the CAP usage issues, as well as other
>>>EDXL standards.
>>>
>>>He has an immediate question about the CAP Element Tag wrt the offset
>>>value and why it is determined as it is.  He is working an issue right
>
>>>now and I thought you would be best able to give him an answer. 
>>>Please
>>
>>>get in touch with Norm if you can.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Elysa
>>
>>
>>--
>>Rex Brooks
>>President, CEO
>>Starbourne Communications Design
>>GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
>>Berkeley, CA 94702
>>Tel: 510-898-0670
>
>
>--
>Rex Brooks
>President, CEO
>Starbourne Communications Design
>GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
>Berkeley, CA 94702
>Tel: 510-898-0670


-- 
Rex Brooks
President, CEO
Starbourne Communications Design
GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
Berkeley, CA 94702
Tel: 510-898-0670


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