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Subject: RE: [emergency] EDXL and routing over non-SOAP networks


As a primarily SOAP network provider it pains me to say that Bob is
correct about whetehr the Distribution effort could be used outside the
header.

The EDXL Distribution Element should be regarded as a complex element
that should be placed in the header in a SOAP environment.  There is
nothing, however, to prevent its placement as "just another top-level
element" in some other XML structure.  There may be a problem with this
for the semantics of the identified content.  If the element is not in
the header position, the content declaration has to be about sibling
elements of some sort.  I am not sure how that would work.  Otherwise,
however, I see no issues with using Distribution for what it is,
whereever it is appropriate, in an XML document. 

Still, the Distribution Element was not built for information to be read
on desktops.  It was meant to identify the desktops (and servers) where
the CONTENT is to be sent.  We need to keep the boundary understood.
The more content you place in the distribution element, the more you
limit its general applicability.  Data that needs to show on an end
user's screen belongs in content elements and not in distribution
(except for the purpose of building, maintaining, or reviewing the
disribution data itself as distribution data and NOT as content data).  

Respectfully, 

Gary A. Ham 
Senior Research Scientist
Battelle Memorial Institute
540-288-5611 (office)
703-869-6241 (cell)
"You would be surprised what you can accomplish when you do not care who
gets the credit." - Harry S. Truman


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Wyman [mailto:bob@wyman.us] 
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 1:16 PM
To: 'Elysa Jones'; 'Kon Wilms'; emergency@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [emergency] EDXL and routing over non-SOAP networks


Elysa Jones wrote:
> I was looking to Bob Wyman to chime in on this as he seems to have a 
> good bit of experience in the area but missed him on the call too.
	Please accept my apologies for missing the call. I had to make
an unexpected trip and then got confused about the time. I thought it
was at 9:00am EST but nobody else was on the line when I called in... I
must have had the wrong time.

	Personally, I think it is quite important that EDXL *not* be a
SOAP only protocol. In any case, I'm unaware of anything that EDXL
requires that would argue for any constraints other then laziness that
would limit its utility to non-SOAP systems. One thing that is important
to recognize is that if you did limit EDXL to SOAP you would be making
it very difficult to deliver EDXL messages as "alerts" since SOAP, which
usually runs in a stateless push mode, can't penetrate most firewalls.
Thus, a SOAP only EDXL would pretty much limit the utility to EDXL to
server-to-server communications. You wouldn't be able to deliver EDXL
packets to desktops... If want to deliver to desktops, you either have
to assume proxy/forwarding systems (like SMTP servers) or continuous
connections created from within the firewall to external systems (e.g.
something like Jabber/XMPP or BEEP).
	What we should be doing is defining EDXL as a general system and
then specifying the mappings to the various delivery mechanisms. Thus,
there should be a core EDXL specification and addendums that show how to
use it over SOAP, SMTP, Jabber/XMPP, BEEP, carrier-pigeon, etc.

	bob wyman


-----Original Message-----
From: Elysa Jones [mailto:ejones@warningsystems.com] 
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 10:32 PM
To: Kon Wilms; emergency@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [emergency] EDXL and routing over non-SOAP networks

Hey Kon,
As far as I know the discussions about the EDXL header have been SOAP 
exclusive as shown in the documentation handed off to us by the DHS
group 
via EIC.  I agree that we must also look at other transports in the
future 
but are trying to get this piece worked out first.  While we had "Other 
distribution types in common use" on the agenda for todays meeting, we 
didn't get to that point.  I was looking to Bob Wyman to chime in on
this 
as he seems to have a good bit of experience in the area but missed him
on 
the call too.  Our next call will be 3/24 at a bit more reasonable time
for 
you west coast folks (10:30 EST), I hope you can join.  Hopefully the
list 
discussion will continue in the meantime.  Thanks for your comments,
Elysa


At 10:59 PM 3/16/2005, Kon Wilms wrote:
>The subject is fairly self-explanatory. Has anyone looked into this, or
>have I missed
>something? Are there recommended practices (or even a strawman) for 
>routing EDXL
>messages over non-SOAP networks? Or is EDXL strictly for SOAP
distribution?
>
>I foresee having to connect to EDXL sources and route the messages over
>broadcast
>networks. Reading through the current documents I find the following
issues:
>
>1. In order to route EDXL over a satellite or broadcast network, I will
>have to essentially parse
>the message, strip out header fields, map these to broadcast headers at

>the packet extension
>layer, and route the entire message as a 'blob'.
>2. In order to route such messages, one has to know what to target
and/or 
>how to filter. Set
>top boxes typically have proprietary targeting if running an
application 
>capable of filtering
>targeted data, or are configured via zipcodes (as most providers do).
The 
>IFSC wrapper model
>points to the EDXL spec for routing requirements. The EDXL routing
block 
>requirements
>indicate SOAP on a rope, URIs and geocodes, and XML. None of this maps
1 
>to 1 over these
>networks.
>
>Any advice / comments / suggestions ? Or am I jumping the gun?
>
>Cheers
>Kon
>
>
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