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Subject: RE: [emergency] Re: Circle and Polygon
I can state for the record that he military is at least expiimenting with CAP. It is part of several ongoing trials in this year's Coalition Waarefare Interoperability Demonstration (CWID) going on this very week. R/s Gary A. Ham Senior Research Scientist Battelle Memorial Institute 540-288-5611 (office) 703-869-6241 (cell) "You would be surprised what you can accomplish when you do not care who gets the credit." - Harry S. Truman -----Original Message----- From: David Danko [mailto:DDanko@esri.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 11:27 PM To: Bullard, Claude L (Len); Carl Reed Cc: emergency@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: RE: [emergency] Re: Circle and Polygon I didn't mean to imply that NATO C2 would be using CAP. I just meant that the military - having probably the most experience passing coordinates around - has learned that using one CRS works the best for passing coordinates. Although developed by the military - it's heavily used outside the military. The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) has settled on WGS 84 for air navigation systems see www.WGS84.com and it's the CRS used by GPS. http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=WGS%2084 I have seen it happen many times where people "forgot" or didn't realize their information was in a different reference system. I was just looking at this as a communication issue. In an emergency situation one may not have the time to realize there is a miscommunication and go back and fix it. I agree we need to get the opinions of users - we should also include some geodesist. I certainly don't know all the uses for CAP. It may very well be used for high precision positioning where a local system may work the best - we'll have to see what the users want. Dave David M. Danko GIS Standards Environmental Systems Research Institute, Inc. 8620 Westwood Center Drive Vienna, VA 22182-2214 USA E-mail: ddanko@esri.com Tel: 703-506-9515 x 8011 Mobile: 703-989-1863 Fax: 703-506 9514 -----Original Message----- From: Bullard, Claude L (Len) [mailto:len.bullard@intergraph.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 5:21 PM To: Carl Reed Cc: emergency@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: RE: [emergency] Re: Circle and Polygon 1. That suggests that CAP is to be used for NATO C2. It seems highly unlikely but I may be wrong. Even if so see 2. 2. Having a single global coordinate reference is desirable but cannot be enforced. Is it better to have the option and it be denoted or to not have an option and have either implementations that do not denote their variance or implementations that cannot use CAP? It is usually a bad idea to attempt to enforce political will through technical standards. It creates resistance at every level of decision making. This decision should be made by the stakeholders, so it is a good idea to get many more opinions from those who will be using CAP. Art says this will remain open to discussion. It will be wise to post a succinct description to as many of the stakeholders as can be identified and get their consensus. OTW, this decision for better or worse will appear to have been made by the vendors represented on the WG. If the stakes are as high as Mr. Danko suggests, then it is worth taking to the users. len From: David Danko [mailto:DDanko@esri.com] We agreed early on in CAP to stick to one global coordinate reference system to remove all chance of mis-communication. I think this was/is the right thing to do. NATO and most military coalitions that need to interoperate have settled on this method. There have been many deadly mistakes caused by a misunderstanding of CRSs. If there is a requirement to use different reference systems I suggest they be -in addition to - Or - it be very apparent that a non-standard CRS is being used. Users should not be able to get to the coordinates without knowing what CRS is being used. Dave David M. Danko GIS Standards Environmental Systems Research Institute, Inc. 8620 Westwood Center Drive Vienna, VA 22182-2214 USA E-mail: ddanko@esri.com Tel: 703-506-9515 x 8011 Mobile: 703-989-1863 Fax: 703-506 9514 -----Original Message----- From: Carl Reed [mailto:creed@opengeospatial.org] Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 12:42 PM To: acb@incident.com Cc: emergency@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: Re: [emergency] Re: Circle and Polygon Art - You still appear to be missing the point. We can leave CAP and EDXL with WGS 84 as the default (but not mandatory!) so that all existing implementations work and the level of "simplicity" being sought is maintained. We are suggesting optional elements that would allow folks to use other than WGS 84 as the only CRS. This provides implementation flexibility and allows different regions in the world to implement as they see fit for their region. Cheers Carl > On Jun 15, 2005, at 6/15/05 12:12 AM, Renato Iannella wrote: >> One of other key benefits from reusing GML is their use of spatial >> reference system pointers. Without the spatial reference system >> pointer, we will not be able to >> work >> across jurisdictional boundaries who use different coordinate >> systems, or with many legacy data sources. > > Again, I wonder whether that might just be making life unnecessarily > difficult. As it is we specify a single, global coordinate system, > and folks who use different ones can handle the necessary conversions. > > - Art > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that > generates this mail. You may a link to this group and all your TCs in > OASIS at: > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. You may a link to this group and all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. You may a link to this group and all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. You may a link to this group and all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that generates this mail. You may a link to this group and all your TCs in OASIS at: https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php
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