[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]
Subject: RE: [emergency] HAVE draft comment posted
Sukumar, I agree. We need to have an open discussion on this as soon as we can. Adopting a NDR is critical, but your point is well made - it may not be the NIEM NDR that is final - this will make NIEM work a lot harder - but I cannot imagine that every standards body that will be represented in NIEM will adopt their NDR....NIEM needs to address this from their side. Thanks, Lee 'We the unwilling, led by the unknowing have been doing the difficult with little for so long that we are now ready to tackle the impossible with nothing.' -- Local Fire communications reserve volunteer motto -----Original Message----- From: Sukumar Dwarkanath [mailto:sdwarkanath@comcare.org] Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 10:06 AM To: Tim Grapes; Lee Tincher; Rex Brooks; Elysa Jones; emergency@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: RE: [emergency] HAVE draft comment posted All, I am not against the NIEM NDR, but the TC should conduct the due diligence to understand if there are other alternatives or recommendations from OASIS. I do not want to be stuck in a position where we adopt this now, and OASIS then stipulates another NDR... This will be a substantive change as it not just a change in the semantics but it involves a lot more effort - you need to align to the schema design rules, data modeling rules etc. Which brings me to my next question - what stage is this document in? The reason I ask is that I do not see any content in Sec 11, 12 etc. I agree with the notion that we need to adopt a NDR and apply it consistently for all products, but we need to make sure that what we conduct the due diligence. Sukumar -----Original Message----- From: Tim Grapes [mailto:tgrapes@evotecinc.com] Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 9:16 AM To: 'Lee Tincher'; 'Rex Brooks'; 'Elysa Jones'; emergency@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: RE: [emergency] HAVE draft comment posted Hey Rex, I do understand where you are coming from, but my feeling is that now is the time to adopt the NDR, before we have a release. The NDR is conformant to ISO 11179, and I don't think it would be considered a substantive change - the structure and definitions are the same. We would only be changing the semantics. It should not break existing applications since HAVE is only a draft, and should only be used to this point for pilots and demos. I do believe the time is now to incorporate this, but perhaps I don't fully understand the argument you put forth. As it stands, the TC has incorporated naming logic not based upon an NDR. We're simply recommending adoption of a specific convention that will cure a lot of headaches down the pike. Thanks, Tim -----Original Message----- From: Lee Tincher [mailto:ltincher@evotecinc.com] Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 9:02 AM To: 'Rex Brooks'; 'Tim Grapes'; 'Elysa Jones'; emergency@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: RE: [emergency] HAVE draft comment posted Rex, If we waited until the next version to adopt the NDR wouldn't that put us in the position of having an immediate major release (v2.0) since I doubt that it would be backwards compatible from the initial release? Thanks, Lee 'We the unwilling, led by the unknowing have been doing the difficult with little for so long that we are now ready to tackle the impossible with nothing.' -- Local Fire communications reserve volunteer motto -----Original Message----- From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 8:56 AM To: Tim Grapes; 'Elysa Jones'; emergency@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: Re: [emergency] HAVE draft comment posted Hi Tim, I posed my initial response earlier, but I wanted to specifically address where in the process this should be taken up wrt HAVE. My own feeling (subjective) is that it should be held back until a subsequent version, e.g. v1.1. or 2.0 because I suspect it will meet the criterion that a substantive change requiring a new 60-day public review has a threshold or trigger whereby a substantive change is one that "breaks" existing applications. Objectively, we literally can't afford to hold this up, or vendors will produce their own menagerie of proprietary solutions. This is what happened for the OASIS SOA Reference Model TC (and current Reference Architecture SC). It has endured and continues to face the proliferation of ESBs and "SOA Fabrics" jockeying for the inside track in the marketplace while we carefully crafted the Reference Model and continue to work on the Reference Architecture. However, because both the model and architecture are largely abstract, much like we can make the NDR we can, I believe, absorb ESBs and Fabrics, albeit with a very flexible shoe horn. So while the comparison is not precise, the effect that ESB vendors have been running away with the marketplace still applies. So we will have to attempt to incorporate NDR, crafting it as a non-breaking, non normative "best practice" in an appendix during and immediately after the 60-day review IF we have the time--which is to say, IF we are not swamped with industry comments. We will also need to include the advice that we expect to incorporate a general-purpose NDR methodology in the next version of HAVE and EDXL_DE along with all subsequent members of the EDXL family. We may be able to do this because what we are doing is establishing a methodology for NDR, not a controlled vocabulary in itself. If NIEM is looking for a the greater restriction of its own controlled vocabulary, which is what we feared early on in Mike Daconta's initial statements, we would have a greater challenge, and I would have to take the position that we are required to ensure international applicability over any specific national systems. Either way, its a tough pill that it is better to take now than postpone because it is not going to taste any better, and likely to ferment into much worse, if we wait. Cheers, Rex At 2:57 PM -0500 11/1/06, Tim Grapes wrote: >All, > >I and others on and off the OASIS EM-TC would >like to post a recommendation that the National >Information Exchange Model (NIEM) Naming and >Design Rules (NDR) be adopted and applied to the >HAVE committee draft. My understanding is that, >although a consistent convention was used to >name the elements, no formal NDR has been >followed for HAVE or for Resource Messaging (RM). > >Please note that not adopting the NDR does not >prevent use of NIEM to develop exchanges using >EDXL standards; however, the difficulty for >practitioners may be increased otherwise. I >realize that this feels Federal >government-driven, but I don't see a down-side >since the particular semantics applied should >not negatively impact the International >community. > >Benefits: >. Use HAVE as the starting point to >begin applying a published and consistent naming >convention across the EDXL standards >. Promote reuse and facilitate simpler >and more seamless use of NIEM for the >development of IEPD's and implementation of >exchanges using the EDXL standards. >. Provide a straight-forward avenue and >mechanism for state and local organizations to >comply with grants language which specifies NIEM >and EDXL > >We do not feel that the specification should be >held up; HAVE should proceed into the 60-day >comment period with this and other comments that >have been posted. If adopted by the TC, >recommend that the NIEM NDR be adopted for the >draft Resource Messaging and subsequent >standards, and possibly to the Distribution >Element when a successive version is put forth. > >I welcome any comments or feedback. I will be >on the call Thursday at 4:45. Because HAVE is >pending committee vote, I don't know where this >comment should be formally posted. Please >advise and I will ensure that gets done. > >Sincerely, >Tim Grapes >Evolution Technologies, Inc. >Office: (703) 654-6075 >Mobile: (703) 304-4829 ><mailto:tgrapes@evotecinc.com>tgrapes@evotecinc.com > > >From: Elysa Jones [mailto:ejones@warningsystems.com] >Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 6:18 AM >To: emergency@lists.oasis-open.org >Subject: [emergency] Call for quorum - Thurs 11/2 4:45PM EST > >Dear EM-TC Members, > >We did not have a quorum for our meeting >yesterday and we would like to get the HAVE >moved forward to public comment, as well as >review/approve the meeting notes for the past >few meetings. We had our meeting which is >summarized in the notes that will be uploaded >for review but without a quorum, we were not >able to do any business. We will plan to have a >short meeting on Thursday just before the >Msg/Not meeting on Resource Thursday evening at >4:45PM EST. The EM-TC part of the meeting >should only last 15 minutes if everyone can be >prepared to vote on HAVE. If you have any >issues on the draft as it is posted or >corrections to the meeting notes for the Sept >and Oct meetings, please post them to the list >as soon as possible. > >Thanks! >Elysa Jones, Chair >OASIS EM-TC >Engineering Program Manager >Warning Systems, Inc. > >PS - The EIC meeting will be today Nov 1. You >can dial in to 800-320-4330 pin # 327547 > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.20/508 - Release Date: 10/31/2006 > > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.22/512 - Release Date: 11/1/2006 > > >Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:NIEM_NDR-0.3.pdf (PDF /<IC>) (0019F2A1) -- Rex Brooks President, CEO Starbourne Communications Design GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison Berkeley, CA 94702 Tel: 510-849-2309 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.22/512 - Release Date: 11/1/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.22/512 - Release Date: 11/1/2006
[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]