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Subject: RE: [emergency] RE: CoT / NIEM
Dear Judtih, Everyone, Let me clarify my own position and apologize for appearing to agree with David Ellis' characterization of COMCARE. I don't agree with that part of David's message: to wit "... The EIC has always been a vendor consortium dominated by COMCARE which brought a vendor product perspective to be considered by the technical committee..." I don't believe COMCARE has always dominated EIC, nor do I think that a "vendor product perspective" is a bad thing for EIC to bring to this process. I don't know if that was David's intent. I certainly did not read it that way, so I don't understand reacting as if David's message was an attack on COMCARE. I think that a vendor product perspective is absolutely necessary for developing good standards so that vendors can implement them successfully, for everyone's benefit. I read David's message as an attempt to clarify some misstatements about the EIC having oversight over the OASIS EM TC and other statements about EDXL-DE by Mr. Kern, who, as far as I know, is not associated with COMCARE. I happen to have a high regard for COMCARE. Cheers, Rex At 9:24 PM -0500 2/25/08, Judith Woodhall wrote: >I usually do not respond to email trails such as these, but in light of >Mr. Ellis' statements and Rex's email about clarifying misstatements, I >felt I needed to respond this particular trail. > >I am curious as to why David Ellis' recent posting attacked the >Emergency Interoperability Consortium (EIC) and COMCARE. For reasons >that escape me, he dismisses EIC as a tool of COMCARE, and COMCARE as a >vendor oriented group. That would surprise both EIC and COMCARE's >members, most of whom are emergency response organizations. His >assertions are also entirely in conflict with the facts. > >Ironically, the OASIS EDXL Distribution Element standard that Mr. Ellis >likes so much was initiated by COMCARE in 2004. The emergency response >practitioner process to develop detailed requirements for messaging >standards that he refers to favorably was initially organized and run by >COMCARE for two years, under contract to the DHS Disaster Management >Program. COMCARE's work coordinating a wide range of emergency response >organizations, addressing a multiplicity of use cases, resulted in the >submission of three detailed specifications to the OASIS EMTC: the >Distribution Element, the set of Resource Messages and HAVE. EIC >members contributed to that process and EIC was the formal "submitter" >for the work product of the process COMCARE organized and ran. The >other key partner in that effort was Evolution Technologies. The staff >there provided superb technical support, except for HAVE, where our >Technical Director, did the work. No new detailed requirements or >specifications have been submitted to the EMTC in the two and one half >years since COMCARE's contract to do this outreach and organizational >work was shifted to SRA/Touchstone. > >So what is David upset about? I'm not sure. > >Could it be that he knows COMCARE objects to the proprietary >architecture Ellis designed for IPAWS? We understand why information >technology vendors like Sandia want every emergency message to go >through their network. We don't know of a business that doesn't want a >monopoly. However, we strongly believe in standards-based open >architecture. That means more than just using messaging standards. It >means that key functions like access control/identity management and >organizational directories cannot be tucked into proprietary products >like the proprietary intelligent message broker David (or anyone) >selects. There will be multiple emergency applications and networks, >owned by a wide variety of emergency agencies or states. If we are >going to have interoperability, key functions like these two (who the >players are and what they are allowed to do) need to be standardized and >available to all authorized networks and parties. We call these >network-centric applications "core services" and are working with a wide >variety of parties to standardize them. OGC, COMCARE, NENA and NASFM >have an initiative for this purpose. > >Sure the NewParadigm intelligent broker David selected a couple of years >ago is terrific. But COMCARE, EIC, and hopefully DHS spent a lot of >time and energy developing the initial work - brought to fruition by the >EMTC - which allows any IT product adopting the EDXL standards to talk >to any other one. We didn't do that to have a single player in the >middle. > >Judith > >-------------------------- >Judith Woodhall >Executive Director >COMCARE >Emergency Response Alliance >1701 K Street NW >Fourth Floor >Washington DC 20006 >O: 202.429.0574 Ext. 203 >C: 202.538.1645 >jwoodhall@comcare.org >www.comcare.org > >-----Original Message----- >From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] >Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 12:07 PM >To: Ellis, David; mkern at mkern dot com; 'Kamran Atri'; 'Hoogasian >Stephen M Col Select AF/A5R-Q'; 'Wright, Bill <CTR>'; cv@mowg.cap.gov; >Oien, Chuck; Ammerlahn, Heidi; emergency@lists.oasis-open.org >Cc: matthew.kern@associates.hq.dhs.gov; Nelson, Brian Dale; 'Ponikvar, >Donald <CTR>'; 'Streetman, Steven <CTR>'; 'Tullia, Thomas'; 'Dilonardo, >Robert' >Subject: [emergency] RE: CoT / NIEM > >Thanks for your diligence, David, > >As co-chair of the Emergency Messages and Notification Subcommittee >of the OASIS Emergency Management Technical Committee (EM TC), I >appreciate your effort to clarify and correct any misstatements, >however well-intentioned they may be. We have seen these kinds of >statements several times over recent years, by various parties, and >it is important that any misconceptions or misunderstandings due to >such statements or which lead to such statements should be clarified >and corrected as quickly as possible. > >Best Regards, >Rex Brooks > >At 9:18 AM -0700 2/25/08, Ellis, David wrote: >>Matt >> >>Please be more precise when describing the standards efforts >>developing a basis for deploying a highly scalable, secure, >>distribution capability for event notification operational needs. >>The term XML Router when describing EDXL-DE distribution continues >>to cause confusion. In Fact, the IPAWS program office has explored >>all kinds of "XML Routers" which do not support the use of EDXL-DE >>metadata for security and distribution routing. Also, EDXL-DE can >>distribute non-XML payloads. >> >>The next major issue is stating that the EIC has Oversight of the >>OASIS Emergency Management technical committee. OASIS is an >>International Standards body which develops capability to meet the >>needs of a diverse set of international agencies. In the United >>States, the Federal, State, Tribal, and local fire, police, >>emergency response agencies are stakeholders. In the past, the >>Disaster Management e-Gov program used a practitioners working group > >to determine needs directly from the responders. The EIC has always >>been a vendor consortium dominated by COMCARE which brought a vendor > >product perspective to be considered by the technical committee. >> >>Finally, the statement that "We see USAF CoT as a substitute for >>IEEE 1512.4" is not a Sandia National Laboratories position and >>based on the first sentence of the attached e-mail implies this it >>is an OASIS EM TC position. In Fact, we have discussed this and >>over a year ago documented some requirements for an EDXL Asset >>Tracking standard to compliment the EDXL-RM standard. The Asset > >Tracking efforts of the TC have been postponed until the RM standard >>was completed. Also, I believe the Department of Commerce and the >>IEEE would question this statement. >> >>Sandia National Laboratories is fully committed to work through >>International standards bodies like OASIS to meet the needs of >>Federal agencies in deploying systems for Homeland Security. The >>wording in the attached e-mail implies Sandia National >>Laboratories/David Ellis agrees with all aspects of the e-mail. >> >>David E. Ellis >>Information Management Architect >>(505) 844-6697 >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: mkern at mkern dot com [mailto:mkern@mkern.com] >>Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:00 AM >>To: 'Kamran Atri'; 'Hoogasian Stephen M Col Select AF/A5R-Q'; >>'Wright, Bill <CTR>'; cv@mowg.cap.gov >>Cc: matthew.kern@associates.hq.dhs.gov; Nelson, Brian Dale; Ellis, >>David; 'Ponikvar, Donald <CTR>'; 'Streetman, Steven <CTR>'; 'Tullia, >>Thomas'; 'Dilonardo, Robert' >>Subject: RE: CoT / NIEM > > >>Kamran: >> >>Dave Ellis of Sandia National Labs is on the OASIS TC committee. He >>is also the >>lead on producing the pilot DNDO router for the SETCP (SouthEast >Regional >>Transportation Corridor Pilot Program. He is also the lead on the >>production of >>IPAWS routers at FEMA. >> >>Don Ponikvar and Steve Streetman from DNDO are on the EIC (steering >committee) >>for oversight of OASIS TC. >> >>(I believe we are as highly connected as we can reasonably be.) >> >>Concerning our alignment of concepts and compliance with OASIS, the >DNDO DMWG >>and it's predecessor group follow the EDXL-DE approach as listed in >>the EDXL-DE >>standard, with modifications, as follows. First, the EDXL-DE standard >says it >>may be used to encapsulate EDXL-CAP or EDXL-HAVE or EDXL-RM or IEEE >1512 >>messages. IEEE 1512 includes 1512.base for OC interoperation, 1512.1 >for >>traffic management, 1512.3 for HAZMAT- but IEEE 1512.4 for mobile units >was >>never completed and work has halted. We see USAF CoT as a substitute >for IEEE >>1512.4. DNDO also hopes to encapsulate CBP N25/T25 in EDXL-DE >wrappers. >>EDXL-DE is seen as a protocol intended for use between XML routers. >The GNDS >>(Global Nuclear Detection System) hopes to use the infrastructure of >>others like >>CBP, TSA and the IC, who primarily use XML routers for infrastructure, >and >>EDXL-DE offers hope for interconnection and interoperation of these >routers. >> >>(I believe we are also about as compliant as possible.) >> >>Some eventual assistance from EDMO to cause others in DHS to also adopt >such >>compliance would be very helpful. USCG and FEMA are already moving in >this >>direction. I can forward you a FEMA white-paper on that. CBP and TSA >are >>other key targets for interoperation, and especially SBInet, where >>we could use >>assistance concerning harmonization and interoperation based on DHS >standards. >> >>Matt >> >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Kamran Atri [mailto:katri@paragontech.net] >>Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 9:14 AM >>To: Hoogasian Stephen M Col Select AF/A5R-Q; Wright, Bill <CTR>; >>cv@mowg.cap.gov >>Cc: matthew.kern@associates.hq.dhs.gov; mkern@mkern.com; >bdnelso@sandia.gov >>Subject: RE: CoT / NIEM >> >>EDXL is also part of NIEM (work in progress). Who in EDXL are you >>working with? >> >> >>Thanks, >> >>Kamran Atri >>703-930-6057 >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Hoogasian Stephen M Col Select AF/A5R-Q >>[mailto:Stephen.Hoogasian@pentagon.af.mil] >>Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 8:28 AM >>To: Wright, Bill <CTR>; Kamran Atri; cv@mowg.cap.gov >>Cc: matthew.kern@associates.hq.dhs.gov; mkern@mkern.com; >bdnelso@sandia.gov >>Subject: RE: CoT / NIEM >> >>Gents, >> >>I might also suggest speaking with both LtCol Troy Campbell and Mr >>Brian Nelson >>of Sandia. They are making progress on very similar issues in >>coordinating the >>intercommunication between CoT and EDXL (emergency data exchange >language). >> >>v/r >>Hoog >> >>Lt Col Stephen Hoogasian >>Irregular Warfare Requirements >>HQ USAF/A5R-Q, Rm 5C161 >>Comm: 703-614-4940 >> >>"Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no >path and >>leave a trail." - Emerson >> >> >>-----Original Message----- > >From: Wright, Bill <CTR> [mailto:Bill.Wright.ctr@wg.srs.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:49 PM >>To: Kamran Atri; Hoogasian Stephen M Col Select AF/A5R-Q >>Cc: matthew.kern@associates.hq.dhs.gov; mkern@mkern.com >>Subject: RE: CoT / NIEM >> >>Kamran, >>thanks so much for the reply. >>Here is a central question that I have. >>CoT emphasizes significantly the use of attributes for defining >properties of >>objects. (Or at least this is my current understanding.) NIEM >emphasizes >>strongly the use of elements and recommends very limited use of >attributes. >>In fact, I have suggested that more use of attributes should be made >>in our NIEM >>models, and I have had a pretty strong push back against this. >>So I'm wondering how this architectual conflict around the use of >>attributes by >>NIEM and CoT is being addressed? >> >>cheers, >>Bill >> >>________________________________ >> >>From: Kamran Atri [mailto:katri@paragontech.net] >>Sent: Wed 2/20/2008 16:38 >>To: Hoogasian Stephen M Col Select AF/A5R-Q; Wright, Bill <CTR> > >Cc: matthew.kern@associates.hq.dhs.gov; mkern@mkern.com >>Subject: RE: CoT / NIEM >> >> >> >>We (me and CoT team) really have not started the work yet. I have >received a >>demo so far and a few documentation. >>Just a correction, We are not "working on the incorporation of CoT into >NIEM". >>In actuality when the CoT team is ready we will help CoT to gain >>compliancy with >>NIEM (which I don't forecast to be a large tasking or activities). >>Ill be happy to talk with you or anyone else anytime. >> >> >>Thanks, >> >>Kamran Atri >>703-930-6057 >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Hoogasian Stephen M Col Select AF/A5R-Q > >[mailto:Stephen.Hoogasian@pentagon.af.mil] >>Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 2:31 PM >>To: Wright, Bill <CTR> >>Cc: Kamran Atri; matthew.kern@associates.hq.dhs.gov; mkern@mkern.com >>Subject: RE: CoT / NIEM >> >>Mr Wright, >> >>That is Mr Kamran Atri, cc'd in the message. Also assisting greatly is >Mr >>Matthew Kern, also cc'd. > > >>v/r >>Hoog >> >>Lt Col Stephen Hoogasian >>Irregular Warfare Requirements >>HQ USAF/A5R-Q, Rm 5C161 >>Comm: 703-614-4940 >> >>"Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no >path and >>leave a trail." - Emerson >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Wright, Bill <CTR> [mailto:Bill.Wright.ctr@wg.srs.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 2:27 PM >>To: Hoogasian Stephen M Col Select AF/A5R-Q >>Subject: FW: USCG >> >> >>Steve, >>could I get a contact at NIEM who is working on the incorporation of >CoT into >>NIEM? >> >>cheers, >>Bill Wright >> >>________________________________ >> >>From: mkern at mkern dot com [mailto:mkern@mkern.com] >>Sent: Wed 2/20/2008 12:28 >>To: 'Dilonardo, Robert'; 'Bredehoft, Brent'; 'McDevitt, Steven'; >'Waddell, >>David'; 'Bongers, Martin'; 'Biesecker, Kevin'; 'Dordal, Liz'; >>DavidM.Webb@dhs.gov; 'Vazquez, Jose'; Briggs, Kevin; 'Ponikvar, Donald ><CTR>'; >>'Streetman, Steven <CTR>'; Young, David; lee.smith@dhs.gov; 'dae lee'; >>zaur@comcast.net; Wright, Bill <CTR>; joe.wileman@ensco.com; 'Tullia, >Thomas'; >>bdnelso@sandia.gov; dellis@sandia.gov; 'Kamran Atri'; >donna.roy@dhs.gov; >>kshemendra.paul@usdoj.gov; felix@feacinstitute.org; >beryl@feacinstitute.org; >>bjones@doc.gov; jeanne.etzel@dhs.gov; trent.depersia@dhs.gov; >>William.Ford@usdoj.gov; stephen.molnar1@us.army.mil; >skip@antipatterns.com; >>reng@mitre.org; troubadour3m@adelphia.net; jeffrey.larue@hp.com; >>REICHJ@stratcom.mil; Michael.Pongrace@associates.dhs.gov; >>Ralph.Kohler@rl.af.mil; emackrell@hotmail.com; David.Gearhart@afit.edu; >>franklane@comcast.net; mcalister@nlectc-se.org; 'Trick, Lawrence L. CIV >>COMNAVAIRSYSCOMPATUXENTRIVERMD Air 4.1'; Shawn.Matz@dhs.gov; >>mary.register@dhs.gov >>Cc: cv@mowg.cap.gov; 'Kluckhuhn, Christopher LCDR'; drobbins@mitre.org; >'mkern >>at mkern dot com'; 'Hoogasian Stephen M Col Select AF/A5R-Q' >>Subject: RE: USCG >> >> >>All: >> >>I am sorry for any interruption of your work: Just a small bit of news >to >>brighten your day. >> >>This link < http://www.mowg.cap.gov/gesa/CAPsitmap.cgi > provides >access to an >>ongoing low-budget pilot for providing nationwide situation awareness >to >>state/local/tribal government. This website is the tip of a nationwide >XML >>router network iceberg. Access and use of the router network to >>publish SA from >>your system, receive SA as input to your system (with your user >interface) or >>view SA via their user interface is all free. Improvements in the user >>interface to provide more sophisticated filtering are in process. >>Improvements >>to the router network to provide greater security are in process. >>Improvements >>to interfaces to EDXL-DE sources and civil government routers are in >process. >>Improvements to real-time data sources are in process. >> >>This work is a snapshot view of ongoing collaboration fostering >interoperation >>between FEMA, USAF, USCG, CAP and many others, including many free >>contributions >>from DHS and DOD vendors who want to do something for their country. >>The budget >>is nearly zero and it is not an official program to allow individual >charity >>contribution and to avoid any buildup of organizational barriers. >>Many of these >>folks have been motivated by 9/11 and Katrina. > > >>The basic technology used is the USAF CoT protocol. This technology >was >>contributed to the public domain by SECAF in 2007. MITRE provides >>free routers >>and other software. Over 150 operational systems currently use this >protocol. >>CoT is being incorporated into NIEM. USCG, the DHS lead in C2, is >actively >>using CoT to transform its C2 operations. CoT compliments and does >>not compete >>with OASIS and IEEE 1512 standards, filling the gap left by the >>incomplete IEEE >>1512.4 standard for mobile units (essentially blue force tracking and >>mobile/portable SA functions). >> >>(More information can be obtained from myself or >>Stephen.Hoogasian@pentagon.af.mil ) >> >>Again I apologize for any interruption, however I thought some news >>of progress >>on this critical problem (federal/state/local/tribal cooperative >situation >>awareness) might bring you some small joy! >>Perhaps the next crisis will include a means to interoperate and >exchange unit >>positions, allowing us to work together as one country. >>Thanks for your time! >> >>Matt >> >>Matthew Ford Kern, BSEE, CEADODAF, CEAFEAF VP, EA Practice Manager, >>Constellation Incorporated >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>________________________________ >> >>From: mkern at mkern dot com [mailto:mkern@mkern.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 11:22 AM >>To: 'Hoogasian Stephen M Col Select AF/A5R-Q' >>Cc: cv@mowg.cap.gov; 'Kluckhuhn, Christopher LCDR'; drobbins@mitre.org; >'mkern >>at mkern dot com' >>Subject: RE: USCG >> >> >>Troy, Chris, Doug: >> >>Have I mentioned that you guys are my heroes this week yet? >> >>(I love it when a plan comes together.) >> >>Matthew Ford Kern, BSEE, CEADODAF, CEAFEAF VP, EA Practice Manager, >>Constellation Incorporated >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>________________________________ >> >>From: Hoogasian Stephen M Col Select AF/A5R-Q >>[mailto:Stephen.Hoogasian@pentagon.af.mil] >>Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 10:52 AM >>To: mkern@mkern.com >>Cc: cv@mowg.cap.gov >>Subject: USCG >> >> >> >>Matthew, >> >> >> >>Take a look! Bring up the USCG feed. This is going on real time! >>Troy ROCKS! >>So do Kluckhuhn and Doug! >> >> >> >>http://www.mowg.cap.gov/gesa/CAPsitmap.cgi >> >> >> >>v/r >>Hoog >> >> >> >>Lt Col Stephen Hoogasian >>Irregular Warfare Requirements >>HQ USAF/A5R-Q, Rm 5C161 >> >>Comm: 703-614-4940 >> >> >> >>"Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no >path and >>leave a trail." - Emerson >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that >>generates this mail. You may a link to this group and all your TCs in >OASIS >>at: >>https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > > >-- >Rex Brooks >President, CEO >Starbourne Communications Design >GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison >Berkeley, CA 94702 >Tel: 510-898-0670 > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that >generates this mail. You may a link to this group and all your TCs in >OASIS >at: >https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php -- Rex Brooks President, CEO Starbourne Communications Design GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison Berkeley, CA 94702 Tel: 510-898-0670
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