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Subject: RE: [emergency] HAVE Conformance vs. Documentation vs. Released Schemas
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [emergency] HAVE Conformance vs. Documentation vs.
Released Schemas
From: ltincher@evotecinc.com
Date: Mon, March 15, 2010 1:40 pm
To: "David RR Webber (XML)" <david@drrw.info>
Cc: ltincher@evotecinc.com, "'Lewis Leinenweber'"
<lleinenweber@evotecinc.com>, "'Dwarkanath,Sukumar - INTL'"
<sukumar_dwarkanath@sra.com>, dmcgarry@mitre.org,
emergency@lists.oasis-open.org
David - I am glad that you have a concept here that will work. Once you
buy my company you can then issue me work instructions and demands.
Please send your offer in US dollars.
> Lee, OK - lets spell this out in technical terms of schema - ignore I
> ever mentioned NIEM. Here's what you do. In OASIS EDXL there is the
> HospitalResourcesStatus. Critically it is missing all the mission
> elements needed below for Haiti relief purposes. So what you do is
> create an extension schema - put in all those new components that you need
> urgently - then extend the definition of HospitalResourcesStatus to
> include those as additional choices. Import the extension schema into
> the OASIS EDXL XSD - and now you have what you need working - and you
> disseminate the extension schema for those systems that need to process
> the extended elements. You submit your extension schema to the TC as
> suggestion for inclusion in next release of EDXL. As a TC it is
> therefore beneficial to instruct people - here's how to extend our schema
> in a recommended way to meet emergency needs. Please provide that as
> feedback to us when you do.
> Thanks, DW -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: RE: [emergency] HAVE Conformance vs. Documentation vs.
> Released Schemas
> From: ltincher@evotecinc.com
> Date: Mon, March 15, 2010 1:19 pm
> To: "David RR Webber (XML)"
> Cc: "Lee Tincher" , "'Lewis Leinenweber'"
> , "'Dwarkanath,Sukumar - INTL'"
> , dmcgarry@mitre.org,
> emergency@lists.oasis-open.org
>
> David,
>
> Once again I am in a position to completely disagree with your statements.
> The Keyword concept not only matches nicely with the NIEM NDR Â it also
> completely supports the use of NIEM Code Lists  IF YOU CHOOSE TO USE
> THEMÂ ..
>
> EDXL is a series of INTERNATIONAL Standards. Federation with NIEM is nice
> and I heavily support that every day for both FEMA and DHS Â but
> Federation is NOT compliance. For more on this I once again would point
> you to http://www.grandpaham.com for some interesting perspective on this.
>
> The ideas of things like adapters and code lists (especially through the
> use of keywords) support the federation of NIEM if you choose to use NIEM.
> We are not in the position (or the desire) to re-make EDXL into NIEM Â
> that does not support our International views.
>
> We (I am speaking of my little company) utilize NIEM through the concepts
> provided to consume EDXL through adapters and code lists. I would like to
> promote the idea of using NIEMÂs data dictionary for future development
> simply because it helps us get closer to common terms between our varying
> standards  but that is a discussion for a much broader group that
> includes our international membersÂ
>
> Thanks,
> Lee
>
>
>
>> Lee, keyword concept
>> That is definitely not NIEM compliant nor is it good for long term
>> interoperability. Better is an extensible payload area with type of
>> ##any - or even better using the NIEM extension mechanism to provide an
>> extension schema for these new pieces. Those can then be simply
>> incorporated in the next standard schema. HAVE EDXL is a half-way house
>> at the moment - some parts are following NIEM - others not so much.
>> Obviously its a balancing act - but I would suggest where NIEM has good
>> mechanisms for implementing these needs - that those techniques should
>> be
>> considered first. This also allows just to provide guidelines to
>> developers - that then can then use when they encounter these
>> situations.
>> Thanks, DW -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: RE: [emergency] HAVE Conformance vs. Documentation vs.
>> Released Schemas
>> From: "Lee Tincher"
>> Date: Mon, March 15, 2010 9:34 am
>> To: "'Dwarkanath, Sukumar - INTL'" ,
>> ,
>> Cc: "'Lewis Leinenweber'"
>>
>> #wmQuoteWrapper /* Font Definitions */ @font-face
>> {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} #wmQuoteWrapper
>> @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
>> #wmQuoteWrapper @font-face {font-family:Georgia; panose-1:2 4 5 2 5 4
>> 5 2 3 3;} #wmQuoteWrapper /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal,
>> #wmQuoteWrapper li.MsoNormal, #wmQuoteWrapper div.MsoNormal
>> {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt;
>> font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} #wmQuoteWrapper a:link,
>> #wmQuoteWrapper span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue;
>> text-decoration:underline;} #wmQuoteWrapper a:visited, #wmQuoteWrapper
>> span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple;
>> text-decoration:underline;} #wmQuoteWrapper p {mso-style-priority:99;
>> mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
>> margin-left:0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New
>> Roman","serif";} #wmQuoteWrapper span.EmailStyle18
>> {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
>> color:#1F497D;} #wmQuoteWrapper .MsoChpDefault
>> {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt;} #wmQuoteWrapper @page
>> Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
>> #wmQuoteWrapper div.Section1 {page:Section1;} Sukumar, ThatâÂÂs
>> exactly what we did (with an interspersing of tags as well)â¦The
>> problem is in the definition of the Value Name vs. the Value â we
>> just used an âÂÂ=â sign â but that means coders have more
>> work to
>> do outside of XML Parsers. The keyword concept used in CAP, DE, RM
>> and SitReps would have been much easier to deal withâ¦maybe a
>> consideration for the next release? I have attached the DRAFT that we
>> have been using â it is only a Draft so please do not pass this
>> around outside of OASISâ¦.it includes a sample XML at the endâ¦
>> Thanks,
>> Lee The aim of education should be to teach us rather how to think,
>> than what to think - rather to improve our minds, so as to enable us to
>> think for ourselves, than to load the memory with thoughts of other men.
>> ~Bill Beattie From: Dwarkanath, Sukumar - INTL
>> [mailto:Sukumar_Dwarkanath@sra.com]
>> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 8:51 AM
>> To: ltincher@evotecinc.com; dmcgarry@mitre.org;
>> emergency@lists.oasis-open.org
>> Subject: Re: [emergency] HAVE Conformance vs. Documentation vs. Released
>> Schemas Lee,
>>
>> This is good feedback and will be helpful - I am sure you have already
>> looked at it, but ResourcesInformationText was added as a flexible
>> alternative and can be used for most of the items in the short term.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Sukumar
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lee Tincher
>> To: 'McGarry, Donald P.' ; Dwarkanath, Sukumar - INTL;
>> emergency@lists.oasis-open.org
>> Sent: Sun Mar 14 17:22:17 2010
>> Subject: RE: [emergency] HAVE Conformance vs. Documentation vs. Released
>> Schemas
>>
>> Slightly off topic â but I think relevant to this discussionâ¦I
>> would
>> like to see some placements of the âÂÂkeywordâ concept into HAVE
>> to
>> better handle extension of existing lists and ability of new Managed
>> Lists. Below is a bulleted list of items we found necessary to support
>> the Haiti Relief effortsâ¦another problem is that in a disaster we
>> are
>> primarily dealing with âÂÂHealth Facilitiesâ and not just
>> Hospitals
>> (e.g. Clinics, Damaged/Partially operating facilities, Tent or MASH
>> style
>> units, converted elderly care facilitiesâ¦.)
>>
>>
>>
>> In addition specific desires for information not included in the HAVE
>> specification was determined. These included:
>>
>>
>>
>> ÷ Information Blood Products
>>
>> ÷ Information on Ancillary Services
>>
>> ÷ Information on Laboratory Services
>>
>> ÷ Information on Pharmacy Services
>>
>> ÷ Status and capacity information on Rehab Services
>>
>> ÷ Accessibility by Road
>>
>> ÷ 24/7 Emergency Room capabilities
>>
>> ÷ Adult Ventilator capabilities and availability
>>
>> ÷ Pediatric Ventilator capabilities and availability
>>
>> ÷ General Medicine capabilities
>>
>> ÷ Is there adequate Nursing staff?
>>
>> ÷ Number of available skilled Nurses
>>
>> ÷ Are there adequate Medical Providers (available physicians and
>> mid-level)?
>>
>> ÷ Number of available Medical Providers
>>
>> ÷ Are there adequate Surgical Teams?
>>
>> ÷ Number of available Surgical Teams
>>
>> ÷ Structural Damage?
>>
>> ÷ Water Shortage?
>>
>> ÷ Power Shortage?
>>
>> ÷ Comments on demographic information
>>
>> ÷ Previously reported demographics information is confirmed?
>>
>> ÷ Internet Access Available?
>>
>> ÷ Email Available?
>>
>> ÷ Phone Service Available?
>>
>>
>>
>> In addition further restrictions apply to the following HAVE elements:
>>
>>
>>
>> ÷ HospitalStatus/Hospital/Organization/Addresses this is free
>> text, but to specify the the "Seccion Communal" use "Seccion= [Name of
>> Seccion Communal]"
>>
>> ÷
>> HospitalStatus/Hospital/Organization/OrganizationInformation/Addresses/AdministrativeArea/SubAdministrativeArea
>> Use "Commune= [Commune Name]"
>>
>> ÷
>> HospitalStatus/Hospital/Organization/OrganizationInformation/Addresses/AdministrativeArea/SubAdministrativeArea
>> Use "Arrondissement= [Arrondissement Name]"
>>
>> ÷
>> HospitalStatus/Hospital/Organization/OrganizationInformation/Addresses/AdministrativeArea/NameElement
>> "[Department Name]"
>>
>> ÷
>> HospitalStatus/Hospital/Organization/OrganizationGeoLocation/gml:point/gml:pos
>> restricted to 4 decimal places
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Lee
>>
>>
>>
>> The aim of education should be to teach us rather how to think, than
>> what
>> to think - rather to improve our minds, so as to enable us to think for
>> ourselves, than to load the memory with thoughts of other men. ~Bill
>> Beattie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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