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Subject: RE: [ihc] Fwd: FW: Emergency data standards


Rex,

Good call - I suspect the NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome is alive and well at NIH / NHIN on this one!  Although DHS are the ones working more with CDC/PHIN - and of course they have more resources.

We've know for some time these folks could benefit significantly from joining OASIS - but that the roadblock to that is down on the Mall...

DW

"The way to be is to do" - Confucius (551-472 B.C.)


> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [ihc] Fwd: FW: Emergency data standards
> From: Rex Brooks <rexb@starbourne.com>
> Date: Fri, November 30, 2007 11:28 am
> To: "Brett Trusko,  Ph.D." <brett.trusko@oasis-open.org>,  Rex Brooks
> <rexb@starbourne.com>
> Cc: ihc@lists.oasis-open.org,  "Charlee Hess" <chess@comcare.org>
> 
> Hi Brett,
> 
> I would appreciate it if you and Peter think about combining the 
> effort to recruit participants for IHC with the need to coordinate 
> our efforts with the Emergency Response Community for nudging HHS to 
> be intelligent in taking on its responsibility for NDMS (below).
> 
> This recruiting effort could include a for voluntary or paid employee 
> time to build and work in an advisory group of experts to work with 
> us on exploring the need for a Medical Resource Messaging 
> specification in the Emergency Data Exchange Language family of specs 
> alongside EDXL-HAVE and the more strictly emergency-related 
> specifications. This should be joint effort and it would be very 
> advantageous to involve HHS in a direct connection to HITSP and the 
> NDMS (below).
> 
> I really worry about HHS because it appears that nothing is 
> coordinated there. ONC's NHIN seems oblivious to CDC's PHIN even 
> after 3 years. I'd love to hear that this is not still the case, but 
> perhaps a recruiting call to both, with the other copied, might be 
> worth considering.
> 
> This is all a lot easier said than done. One thing that might help in 
> the immediate short term would be to send out the agenda for our next 
> meeting early next week as a reminder, with this item on it along 
> with Health Indicators.
> 
> cheers,
> Rex
> 
> Cheers
> 
> At 10:05 AM -0600 11/30/07, Brett Trusko, Ph.D. wrote:
> >Rex,
> >
> >Very interesting. What do you need me to take on?
> >
> >Brett
> >
> >On Nov 29, 2007, at 6:28 AM, Rex Brooks wrote:
> >
> >>Hi Folks,
> >>
> >>Apparently this area is heating up. The recent release of EDXL-HAVE 
> >>for its second 60-Day Public Review plays into this area, as does 
> >>the very, very quiet development of the provisions of last year's 
> >>S. 3678 for Pandemic and All-Hazards Preparedness Act, which moved 
> >>responsibility for the National Disaster Medical System (NDMS) from 
> >>the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to the HHS.
> >>
> >>I would like to suggest that we discuss this in the OASIS 
> >>International Health Continuum Technical Committee and possibly 
> >>contact COMCARE about participating in this effort. As informal 
> >>liaison to the OASIS Emergency Management TC, I could share 
> >>responsiblity for keeping abreast of this with another IHC-TC 
> >>member. Unfortunately, my existing commitments prevent me trom 
> >>shouldering the entire effort.
> >>
> >>However, we should discuss this further since our work does include 
> >>the Emergency Response (ER) even if it is not our main focus.
> >>
> >>Cheers,
> >>Rex
> >>
> >>>Subject: FW: Emergency data standards
> >>>Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:43:42 -0500
> >>>Thread-Topic: Emergency data standards
> >>>Thread-Index: AcgwUQsmeHP5zEDbTt+SYfCxdcCWTQAAB1knAACzsyAAAuOSIABn6elA
> >>>
> >>>From: "Charlee Hess" <<mailto:chess@comcare.org>chess@comcare.org>
> >>>To: <<mailto:rexb@starbourne.com>rexb@starbourne.com>
> >>>X-SpamScore: 0
> >>>X-Rcpt-To: <<mailto:rexb@starbourne.com>rexb@starbourne.com>
> >>>X-DPOP: Version number supressed
> >>>
> >>>David and Elysa asked me to forward the e-mail below to you.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Thanks,
> >>>
> >>>Charlee
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>From: David Aylward
> >>>Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 2:31 PM
> >>>To: 'N Clay Mann'; 'Bob Cobb'
> >>>Cc: '<mailto:dleonar@lumc.edu>dleonar@lumc.edu'; 'Seb Haileleul'; 
> >>>'Parker, David D (IHS/HQE)'; 'Laurie Flaherty'; 'Earl Hardy'; 
> >>>Judith Woodhall; Amy DuBrueler; 'Michael L. Glickman'; 
> >>>'<mailto:SHufnagel@Tiag.net>SHufnagel@Tiag.net'; 'Roger Hixson'; 
> >>>'<mailto:bthornburg@nena.org>bthornburg@nena.org'; 
> >>>'<mailto:rjones@nena.org>rjones@nena.org'; 'Patrick Halley'; 
> >>>'<mailto:jeff.sexton@state.tn.us>jeff.sexton@state.tn.us'; 'Robert 
> >>>Bass'; Eileen Groell; 
> >>>'<mailto:jpotter@valleyhealthlink.com>jpotter@valleyhealthlink.com'; 
> >>>'<mailto:richard.taylor@ncmail.net>richard.taylor@ncmail.net'; 
> >>>'<mailto:mcginnis@nasemsd.org>mcginnis@nasemsd.org'; 'Timothy 
> >>>Grapes'; '<mailto:ltincher@evotecinc.com>ltincher@evotecinc.com'; 
> >>>'<mailto:dennis.gusty@dhs.gov>dennis.gusty@dhs.gov'; 'David 
> >>>Lamensdorf'; 'Donald Ponikkvar'; 'Paul Mangione'; 
> >>>'<mailto:Drew.Dawson@dot.gov>Drew.Dawson@dot.gov'; 'Tracy Ryan'; 
> >>>'Elysa Jones'; 
> >>>'<mailto:Letartefamily@comcast.net>Letartefamily@comcast.net'; 
> >>>Lauren Barna; Charlee Hess; 'Collins, David'
> >>>Subject: Emergency data standards
> >>>
> >>>Dear Friends:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>I am writing informally on behalf of COMCARE, the HIMSS/COMCARE 
> >>>Emergency Responder Task Force, and the Health Information 
> >>>Technology Standards Panel (HITSP) Working Group on the Emergency 
> >>>Responder Electronic Health Record (ER-EHR).  As you may know, 
> >>>this is a major effort funded by HHS to be able to develop and 
> >>>exchange electronic health records.  For more information, 
> >>>please see
> >>>
> >>><http://www.ansi.org/standards_activities/standards_boards_panels/hisb/hitsp.aspx?menuid=3>http://www.ansi.org/standards_activities/standards_boards_panels/hisb/hitsp.aspx?menuid=3
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Last year this was expanded to include an emergency use case and 
> >>>an associated working group was set 
> >>>up,  <https://mail.natstrat.com/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.hhs.gov/healthit/erehr.html>http://www.hhs.gov/healthit/erehr.html
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>COMCARE has become an increasingly active member of this group. 
> >>>We have been very pleased at the ER-EHR Working Group's 
> >>>willingness to reach out beyond the traditional hospital and 
> >>>hospital technology-based communities, and to include the fine 
> >>>work coming out of the practitioner/DHS/OASIS emergency standards 
> >>>development process.  We are working through with them the details 
> >>>of implementing the vision of informed emergency medical response 
> >>>that most of us have been working on for years, but now within the 
> >>>HITSP context.  This coming together of different "movements" is 
> >>>very exciting.  At the recent HITSP face to face meeting in 
> >>>Chicago we had an excellent session of the ER-EHR Working Group. 
> >>>This included a special session with a number of experts from the 
> >>>emergency medical world, led by Clay Mann for NEMSIS and 
> >>>neurosurgeon Peter Letarte for COMCARE.  Clay is now participating 
> >>>in the Group on a regular basis.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>During this session, we identified three key, major standards 
> >>>gaps/problems that our EMS and 9-1-1 organizational members are 
> >>>well situated (in some cases with others) to solve.   Each is 
> >>>critical to interoperability among the private sector and various 
> >>>professions during emergency medical response.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>The purpose of this email is to ask you to participate in two or 
> >>>three conference calls to scope these issues.  The draft HITSP 
> >>>ER-EHR Interoperability Specification (IS) calls for this activity.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>In summary, the three suggested projects are:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>1. The need to have a consistent definition of incident types 
> >>>(This goes well beyond just EMS and 9-1-1 as well as beyond HITSP 
> >>>and ER-EHR.)
> >>>
> >>>2.  Determine the best way to link data produced by various 
> >>>agencies. This is so the data entries about the incident and 
> >>>patients during a response by the different agencies and 
> >>>organizations can be tied together. One suggestion is the use of 
> >>>unique identifiers for both incidents and patients/victims.
> >>>
> >>>3.  Inconsistent terminology describing all things about 
> >>>patients/victims, from their identity to their care.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>1 and 2.  The ER-EHR Interoperability Specification supports use 
> >>>of the OASIS EDXL Distribution Element to route various kinds of 
> >>>emergency data.  The DE routes messages based on incident type, 
> >>>among other factors.  The DE calls for the use of a common 
> >>>"managed" list of incident types - but such a list doesn't exist. 
> >>>Several years ago, we put a draft together from the lists of each 
> >>>profession when the detailed specification for the DE was put 
> >>>together and submitted to OASIS, but nothing has been done with 
> >>>that since.  So, as remarkable as it sounds, there is no agreed 
> >>>upon nomenclature for incident types across professions.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>In addition, we cannot tie messages and data about an incident or 
> >>>patient/victim together (e.g. 9-1-1 to EMS to hospital) unless the 
> >>>various organizations that contribute information or care agree on 
> >>>a method for doing so.  Today, each agency (system) assigns its 
> >>>own identifier.  As the IS suggests, probably the best solution is 
> >>>that the number assigned by the first agency to encounter the 
> >>>incident or patient/victim should be followed by each succeeding 
> >>>organization as soon as they become aware of it.   There is a lot 
> >>>of devil in that sentence!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>These first two issues are closely tied to work we have done with 
> >>>you and others on the EDXL messaging standards.  Proper resolution 
> >>>will clearly need parties outside the emergency medical community, 
> >>>but we need to solve this problem to share information about 
> >>>patients. This is a good time and reason to get going on two key 
> >>>interoperability problems.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>3.  Regarding patient terminology, the issue is a variant of the 
> >>>one that caused NENA and COMCARE a couple of months ago to request 
> >>>a coordinated review led by DHS (which they do not now have the 
> >>>resources to do).  It appears that there are four primary overall 
> >>>collections of possible taxonomies for patient/victim care 
> >>>purposes:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     a.  9-1-1 (i.e. any NENA standards for data)
> >>>
> >>>     b.  EMS (clearly NEMSIS)
> >>>
> >>>     c.  Hospitals (DEEDS, HL7 and perhaps SNOMED)
> >>>
> >>>     d.  Global Justice Data Dictionary has significant entries on 
> >>>indentification, although not on treatment.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Clay Manning agreed to work with the hospital folks to see how 
> >>>NEMSIS and DEEDS can be harmonized.  We have put him in touch with 
> >>>our colleague Dr. Kevin Coonan who has been working on updating 
> >>>DEEDS.  The purpose of this email is to extend the same question 
> >>>in other directions: other pre-hospital emergency professions.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>We would like to ask NENA and the NEMSIS experts to participate in 
> >>>a conference call in the near future to scope how we could get 
> >>>agreement between 9-1-1 and EMS on taxonomy, and to see if others 
> >>>(e.g. Global Justice Data Dictionary) need to be involved.  I am 
> >>>acutely aware that I made a similar invitation a couple of years 
> >>>ago on behalf of the Department of Homeland Security, and included 
> >>>with it the offer of $50,000 to fund NENA, NAEMSO and others' 
> >>>participation in an effort to develop "common terms" between all 
> >>>emergency professions.  When the standards program was moved to 
> >>>another part of the department, the new management reneged.  Ok, 
> >>>ok.  I am still sorry!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>So no, I am not offering to pay your expenses of participating. 
> >>>:-)  Let's just have a first call to scope the problem and see 
> >>>where we go from there.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>It would be great if Bob Cobb for NENA, Clay Mann for EMS and Tim 
> >>>Grapes from the DHS EDXL project could figure out who will 
> >>>participate from their ends for this preliminary discussion of 
> >>>each of the three issue sets, and then give Eileen Groell 
> >>>(<mailto:egroell@comcare.org>egroell@comcare.org) 3 times in 
> >>>December when those folks could be on the phone for an hour.  We 
> >>>will then let all of you know and hopefully most can join in.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Thanks!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>David Aylward
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>Rex Brooks
> >>President, CEO
> >>Starbourne Communications Design
> >>GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
> >>Berkeley, CA 94702
> >>Tel: 510-898-0670
> 
> 
> -- 
> Rex Brooks
> President, CEO
> Starbourne Communications Design
> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
> Berkeley, CA 94702
> Tel: 510-898-0670


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