[legalxml-courtfiling] Preliminary List of "Roles"

[John Messing <jmessing@law-on-line.com>]

I agree with Roger's observations about titles but I am less sure about roles. I think they are proceeding-relative and not necessarily work-related. For example, I once had a sitting judge as a hostile witness in a case. In title he was a judge. In his role in most proceedings, he was the judge. In our case he had the title Judge but role of fact witness only.

Some additions to the list

administrativeOfficer (of an agency) 

Add: Executive Director

- party (in a case) - a person, organization, or In Rem "thing" that is
a party in a case

Add: Real Party in Interest

- attorney (for a party) - a person authorized to represent a party in a
case


Add: County Attorney and Deputy County Attorney

Add: Legal Defender

John Messing
3900 E. Broadway Blvd., Suite 201
Tucson, AZ 85711
(520)547-7933 (v)
(520)547-7920 (f)
jmessing@law-on-line.com


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I hope these observations help in the discussion. I also wonder whether this issue has been resolved by another technical committee in some other specification developed for another purpose. I think the difference between "title" and "role" can be clarified by recognizing that titles are usually officially-assigned labels, where roles are usually functions or perhaps relationships. 

I think of a title as something a person receives, e.g., "Doctor" for one who has the appropriate degree and license, "Judge" for the judicial officer with the decision-making authority, "Clerk of Court" for the elected or appointed clerk. Sometimes a title might become an element in the person's name, i.e., used as a <NamePrefix> or something like that. There is a certain formality in assigning a title understood in this sense. It would be a much looser practice, I think, to designate someone "Juror Smith," or "Rodeo Clown Winters," as though formal titles; more likely, the reference would be to "Smith, the juror," or "Winters, the rodeo clown." Rather than being titles, those designations are roles because they are functions for the person.

On getting a title, one tends to keep it. An "Attorney at Law" was admitted to the bar and styles herself as such unless and until disbarred. The "Judge" is perhaps separated from the decision making authority upon retirement, but the title is generally retained as a matter of respect. It still makes sense to me to call that a title. 

Beyond this, I think, are roles or attributes. To specify the person's role and relationship may require some root terms with attributes for the variations in detail. For example, being a "district attorney" is a role that can be defined as "representing state authority in law cases." The Chief District Attorney might have that title, but also has the role <prosecutor> (I'm just guessing what the terms ultimately settled on might be). Lower in the hierarchy, someone is also a "district attorney" in terms of the role assigned, but that might be modified by an attribute of "assistant" or "associate" or "civil" or "criminal." 

This is what makes sense to me as a user of words. Since I am not a programmer nor XML master, I can't say whether that carries over.

My 2-cents (adjusted for inflation). 

Roger 

Roger Winters 
Electronic Court Records Manager 
King County 
Department of Judicial Administration 
516 Third Avenue, E-609 MS: KCC-JA-0609 
Seattle, Washington 98104 
V: (206) 296-7838 F: (206) 296-0906 
roger.winters@metrokc.gov 



-----Original Message----- 
From: Mohyeddin Abdulaziz [mailto:abdulaziz@apltwo.ct.state.az.us] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 7:25 AM 
To: Chambers, Rolly 
Cc: legalxml-courtfiling@lists.oasis-open.org 
Subject: Re: [legalxml-courtfiling] Preliminary List of "Roles" in LegalProceedings 

Greetings, 

I think that many items, especially in the <judicialOfficer> category can be 
both "title" and "role".  I do not agree that the <role> tag should be 
replaced by a <title> tag.  Both are needed.  A "chief judge" is a title who 
has a "role" in managing the court and may have a role as a "judge" in a case 
or more specifically a role as an "author" in a decision or opinion. 

I suggest adding "judge pro tem" to the "judicialOfficer" category and the 
following to the attorney category (as used in Arizona): 

legal defender 
assistant legal defender 
county attorney 
deputy county attorney 
attorney general 
assistant attorney general 

"Chambers, Rolly" wrote: 

> What is the difference between a title and a role as you see it? Are you 
> suggesting that the specific "roles" should be marked up with a "title" 
> tag instead of a "role" tag? 
> 
> If so, I don't have a problem with the concept. The Data Dictionary 
> contains a "Title" element, but it is used for motor vehicle title 
> information rather than the title of a person. Will the different 
> "Title" elements be reconciled by the Data Dictionary group? 
> 
> As for duplicates in the list of specific roles, just strike one of 
> them. 
> 
> Rolly Chambers 
> 
>         -----Original Message----- 
>         From: Robin_Gibson@osca.state.mo.us 
>         Sent: Tue 11/12/2002 9:47 AM 
>         To: Chambers, Rolly; legalxml-courtfiling@lists.oasis-open.org 
>         Cc: 
>         Subject: Re: [legalxml-courtfiling] Preliminary List of "Roles" 
> in Legal Proceedings 
> 
> 
> 
>         Before this list is provided to the Data Dictionary group, I 
> highly 
>         recommend that each of the proposed "roles" includes a brief 
> description to 
>         differentiate them from one another.  This will help the task 
> force to 
>         condense duplicates from various sources.  At first glance, they 
> appear to 
>         be titles (or perhaps relationships) rather than roles .  For 
> example, in 
>         the JudicialOfficer listing, I am not able to differentiate the 
> difference 
>         between some of the items listed-- what is the difference in 
> "role" between 
>         a circuit judge and a circuit court judge? 
> 
>         Robin 
> 
>         Robin Gibson 
>         Information Technology Division 
>         Office of State Courts Administrator 
>         robin_gibson@osca.state.mo.us 
>         573-751-4377 
> 
> 
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>                   Name: winmail.dat 
>    winmail.dat    Type: application/ms-tnef 
>               Encoding: BASE64 



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