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Subject: RE: [legalxml-courtfiling] Cancellation of proposed ballot on OXCI options


John, I share Dallas's views on this topic.
 
The OXCI project managers can obviously do whatever they want to do, and in this instance have done so after the TC spent the entirety of the last conference determining to consider the merits of another alternative. It has not yet had the opportunity to do so, and yet a decision has been made.
 
I personally believe that the "solution" OXCI has selected resolves only the first of a series of technical problems inherent in its fundamental approach, and so I wonder how much more of the TC's time will be spent nursing OXCI as additional problems surface. I've also questioned whether the TC's interests are well served by considering a project to build a "standards-compliant" application in the absence of those standards, with the expectation that the application in question will somehow easily accommodate whatever eventually emerges from the TC. The current discussion about whether an envelope is even needed should suggest how ill-founded that premise is. But that should be a problem for the OXCI project managers and funders to worry about, and not absorb the already sparse resources of this TC in my opinion.
 
The TC has requested status reports from Christopher Smith of the California AOC since the 2GEFS project was announced. Those specifications are now released, and it seems to me that their consideration has a prior claim on the TC's time. I for one believe the TC's efforts will be better rewarded as a consequence, and in so doing it stands a far better chance of producing a set of usable standards in a reasonable time frame.
 
Tom Smith
650.591.1795 (Ofc)
650.346.7689 (Mobile)
650.591.1425 (Fax)
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Dallas Powell [mailto:dpowell@tybera.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 10:36 PM
To: Electronic Court Filing Technical Committeee
Subject: Re: [legalxml-courtfiling] Cancellation of proposed ballot on OXCI options

Since OXCI is not actually the standard, and there are some members of the committee that consider OXCI to be nothing more than another competitor, I do not think it is appropriate to call for a vote from the TC on OXCI specific issues.  I am sure that none of us mean to, but it seems as though it is happening.
 
I realize that OXCI is experiencing issues that may affect all of the committee members, and for this reason I participate on calls specific to OXCI but, I do not believe the committee was established to assist OXCI, so I do not feel that OXCI specific calls should be considered official meetings of the TC.
 
As for the envelope, the only reasoning that I can see that OXCI dropped it, is because ebXML has some elements that the ECF 1.1 envelope has ( but by no means all of them), and GJXDM has some elements that the ECF 1.1 envelope has ( but not all of them).  I read the architectural document on OXCI and could find no other valid reasoning.
 
However there are several other communication methods that are included in the current vision of Blue which do not support ebXML, and many courts that will not be receiving GJXDM document instances for some time.  In addition, currently functioning products cannot afford to abandon existing courts nor court customers with communication methods already functioning, and force them to adopt a new communications method just because OXCI does not feel there is a need for an envelope.
 
It will be far easier for existing courts and integrated partners to modify an envelope than to change communications methods.  Such a change would force the courts and integrated partners to abandon their existing architecture and move to a new one, and this motivated by one EFM that does not deal with current customer issues.  I think this is a bad choice.
 
My point with the envelope is that there are more than technical issues that should be considered, however I will post my technical reasons why the envelope should not be abandoned as well.
 
I am concerned about the statement that ....Jim would like to receive other comments on:

 

-                      whether Court Filing Blue should contain a required or specified envelope (an issue discussed during the Tuesday teleconference),

-                      whether his proposal for handling fees is adequate, and

-                      the feasibility of Allen Jensen’s recommended way of dealing with firewall security at the interface between OXCI and the court’s case management information system data base (an issue we did not reach on Tuesday).

 
Although I am sure your intent was not to make it sound like Jim and OXCI will decide what to do with the standard, whether to keep the envelope or not, but it sure sounds like it when you read it.
 
As for handling fees, the TC needs to agree on the Schemas that are needed and not the architectural issues of how a product will utilize the schemas. One schema should represent information to allow the EFM to charge for fees, and another schema should represent how the EFSP charges for fees and communicates the information it collected to the EFM.  Another schema should include information that is sent back to the filer that paid the fee to identify how much was charged, against what case number, when it was charged..... and this might be supported in both cases whether the EFM or EFSP charges.  I will the elements and definitions in a schema format that we use for processes court processes to make the charges after it passes through the EFM, and how we encrypt the data for protection when we include it in the envelope.
 
For what its worth, I do believe that users logging in directly to the EFM as pointed out by Alan can be a danger to a network, and I do think that Alan's design to hide the internal EFM is feasible and appropriate for a more secure system.  I also believe that multiple EFMs should be able to communicate to each other, but I also believe that this is an architectural issue and not a TC issue.  The API to communicate to the EFM is what the TC must focus on for interoperability, not the architecture.  Alan's  security model is an excellent architectural proposal and could be considered for an API on the back side of the EFM rather than the front side where an EFSP communicates.
 
 
Dallas
 
 
 
exist still need to maintain those communication methods
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 11:42 PM
Subject: [legalxml-courtfiling] Cancellation of proposed ballot on OXCI options

Jim Cabral passed on the gist of the TC’s Tuesday discussion to the OXCI project managers.  He also received additional guidance from GTRI on the generation of GJXDM subschemas and validated the Amber Alert subschema posted by GTRI.

 

Based upon the discussion, and upon the additional information provided by GTRI, OXCI has decided to pursue option 2 without waiting for GTRI to produce a subschema generator – instead developing GJXDM subschemas for OXCI following the guidance provided by GTRI.  Jim Cabral will be developing the proposed subschemas over the course of the next week.

 

Jim would like to receive other comments on the draft schemas that he previously posted on the Sourceforge website.  He would specifically like to receive further comments on three additional issues:

 

-                      whether Court Filing Blue should contain a required or specified envelope (an issue discussed during the Tuesday teleconference),

-                      whether his proposal for handling fees is adequate, and

-                      the feasibility of Allen Jensen’s recommended way of dealing with firewall security at the interface between OXCI and the court’s case management information system data base (an issue we did not reach on Tuesday).

 

I encourage discussion on each of these issues on the TC listserve.  I will make them discussion items for the next teleconference scheduled for next Tuesday.

 

Because OXCI has decided on the direction it will pursue, there seems to be no point in pursuing a TC ballot on the matter.

 

John M. Greacen

Greacen Associates, LLC

HCR 78, Box 23

Regina, New Mexico 87046

505-289-2164

505-289-2163 (fax)

505-780-1450 (cell)

 



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