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Subject: RE: [legalxml-courtfiling] Common data elements across messages


>> Might it not be a useful thing (or at least potentially useful) for all Blue message structures to contain these pieces of information?
>> Should we include the sending (and perhaps the receiving) MDE ID on all messages as well?
 
FilingId:
I think that making FilingId a member of every non-query message would be a bit short-sighted.
 
Though I am *usually* a stickler for working within our explicit requirements, the practical side of me must speak out from time-to-time as well...
 
It is not difficult to foresee many interactions between MDEs that will not refer to a filing, and therefore not have a filingId.
 
1) Query interactions are an immediate example from our current requirements.
Not every query needs to refer to a filingId.
 
2) The 'docketing process' might also be without filingId, if (as I have suggested) we were to consider a docketing as a stand-alone concept.  Just consider a scenario when we might want to record data that did not originate from an electronic filing process.
 
3) Going just a little bit outside of our current requirements, a 'filer registration' process would likely be without filingid.
I have been involved in at least two systems that explicitly implemented a registration process.  It is a very real process we will eventually need to develop.
 
I suggest that we indicate filingId as an explicit member of those messages that are filing related. We should *not* attempt to make it a member of *all* blue non-query messages.
 
MdeId, SubmitterId, ReceiverId, SubmissionDateTime:
 
I think that every interaction between MDEs should express:
(note - I am not stuck on the terms I have used.  They are just strawmen.)
 
- 'MessageSystemId' - The system from which the message was generated
I *might* be willing to say this is more-or-less the same thing as 'The MDE from which the message was generated' and *might* be just as easily called 'FromMde'. 
 
However, not every message that is assembled and transmitted will come from what-we-would-consider to be an MDE.  Queries continue to be a decent example of this - a valid query message can be assembled and transmitted *to* an MDE, though the caller, itself, might not be able to receive any blue messages and is not, itself, an MDE.
 
Consider a stand-alone kiosk that is designed to interact with a CourtRecord MDE's query functions.  The kiosk, itself, is not really an MDE.  It just interacts with an MDE.  Nevertheless, something in our blue messages should permit the kiosk to express its identity in some way that permits the CourtRecord MDE to authenticate the kiosk (to the satisfaction of the implementers).
 
- 'MessageTimestamp' - The timestamp of when the message was assembled and transmission initiated.
I think we should use a different term for this value than SubmissionDateTime.
 
Lots of folks prefer think of 'SubmissionDateTime' as 'the legal time a filing is considered as transmitted to the court'.
 
In this context, I think we mean something quite a bit less weighty (and, perhaps, less open to interpretation).
 
For each blue message, we would like a timestamp representing when the message was assembled and its transmission initiated.
 
Note that this the timestamp value does not (could not) indicate that the message was received, nor does it necessarily have any legal meaning (as 'submissionDateTime' might).  It is merely a courtesy/systemAdmin value that *could* be given more functional meaning, if the implementation wants to do so.
 
I suggest we just call it 'MessageDateTime'.
 
Note1: Some developers might fuss about my definition of 'MessageDateTime'.  They *might* nit-pick that the timestamp of when a message was assembled and when a message was transmitted could be very distinct values, and, the distinction could be important to some implementers.  I think a single timestamp is generally sufficient for our purposes but I could be easily coaxed into adjusting our standard such that it supports TWO timestamps, messageSentTime and messageAssembledTime, where 'assembledTime' would be an optional value.
 
Note2: Functionally, we of course need a timestamp to indicate when a message was received.  For DataUpdate interactions, (and EventNotification and Report interactions) , this functional value would be the 'MessageTimestamp' expressed within the 'MessageReceipt' message.   For Queries, the received timestamp is essentially the 'MessageTimestamp' expressed in the query response (or QueryFault).  Or, I suppose all of these response variations could contain an element to explicitly indicate when the initiating message was received.
 
- 'MessageUser' - The user functionally responsible for initiating the interaction (even if null / public)
Of course, we haven't yet defined any practical pattern for how users could be expressed such that they are consistently meaningful between a system's MDEs.  But, in theory, this message property exists and should be expressible.  We need to work on it.
- 'ToMde' - The MDE to which the message is intended
This would seemingly be a 'courtesy' value.  
 
The MDEs will often (if not always) have distinct addresses in the overall system such that that a message is directed to a specific MDE at a specific address, and any information embedded within the message, to indicate the intended 'to Mde' is somewhat redundant.
 
But, when you start to talk about issues of security, message validation, authentication, etc.  we can get some good warm fuzzies to clearly see that a message received by my 'xx MDE' was, indeed, explicitly intended for my 'xx MDE'. 
 
- 'ReplyToMde' - The MDE to which a response, if any, is to be directed.
DataUpdate (i.e. Transactional) interactions, can make the most use of this value in order to identify the MDE to which a callback function should be directed.    Likewise for 'Report Interactions', if/when we decide to implement such processes.
Query interactions (and EventNotification interactions) would not absolutely need this value, since their responses are synchronous - directly and immediately returned to the caller.  However, even in a query scenario, the 'reply to MDE' might be useful for system adminstrators' authentication logic or in the event of an unusual interaction failure.
 
- Shane Durham
LexisNexis
 


From: Cabral, James E. [mailto:JCabral@mtgmc.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 8:52 PM
To: scott@justiceintegration.com; legalxml-courtfiling@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [legalxml-courtfiling] Common data elements across messages

Scott,
 
1. I agree that these elements should be common to filing messages.  However,  I'm not sure we need these for queries.
 
2. While the Submitter and Receiver ID should be in the Court Filing XML, I believe the MDE IDs probably should be in all messages - does this necessarily make it nonfunctional?.  However, I think the MDE ID should also be independent of the messaging profile.
3. If we do put the MDE IDs in the messaging profile, what does this mean for assigning MDE IDs?
 
  jim
 

From: Scott Came [mailto:scott@justiceintegration.com]
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 2:05 PM
To: legalxml-courtfiling@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [legalxml-courtfiling] Common data elements across messages

In preparing the domain models for this week's modeling session, I've noticed that there are four data elements that are common to all of the message structures in the current specification, except for the query and response messages (using those terms loosely.)  The common elements in the other message structures are:

Filing ID
Submission Date/Time
Submitter ID
Receiver ID

Also, the Review Filing message contains the sending MDE ID.

Several questions:

1.  Might it not be a useful thing (or at least potentially useful) for all Blue message structures to contain these pieces of information?  That is, can we include them in the structures of the query and response messages as well?  (If this were thought to be a good idea, we'd likely want to change "Filing ID" to something like "Message ID".)

2.  Should we include the sending (and perhaps the receiving) MDE ID on all messages as well?

3.  If we decided to include these on all messages, an argument could be made that they are really non-functional in nature, and therefore should be implemented by the messaging profiles rather than in the main Blue message body.  The point to consider here is that many messaging infrastructure platforms already contain mechanisms for populating and sending these elements.  The platforms generally provide easy developer/integrator access to the information at the receiving end.  If we push the population of these elements into the non-functional requirements, then implementers will be allowed to take advantage of facilities that already exist.

For the web services messaging profile, everything but submission date/time is included in WS-Addressing.  Other profiles would of course have their own mechanisms for implementing them.
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