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Subject: Re: [office-accessibility] proposal
Hi David,
Please see my response below.
Cheers,
Rich
Rich Schwerdtfeger
Distinguished Engineer, SWG Accessibility Architect/Strategist
Chair, IBM Accessibility Architecture Review Board
blog: http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/dw_blog.jspa?blog=441
"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I -
I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference.", Frost
"Dave Pawson" <dave.pawson@gmail.com> wrote on 03/16/2006 12:00:07 PM:
> On 16/03/06, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>
> > > They are semantically identical if semantics are taken from the svg
> > > world Rich.
> > > We gain no benefit from two such similar elements.
> > > A longdesc without structure is IMHO of little added value.
> > > The Caption element does more in terms of svg:title.
> > Title would be a short name for an object -like caption.
> Caption fits that need without introducing another element,
> more typing, more for the user to use or ignore.
>
> > That said,
> > Caption is a rectangular drawing object in your presentation
> Not to a photon free user.
> which has a
> > different
> > purpose in that it is also rendered on the screen and as an author I might
> > not want that:
> So you'd be prepared to type in both title and caption?
>
> If so, I think you are an exception Rich.
>
No. you should be able to use either solution. If you have a caption you should not need to have a title, however if
you do not want a visible caption you need a way to insert a title. Title should be optional. If you forget to have
a title for a drawingobject the user agent can populate the accessiblename with the name attribute on the drawing object.
As a photon enhanced user who creates presentations, I do not want to have a visible caption on everything I draw. However,
I would be willing to add a title for the photon free user.
> >
> > The element represents a rectangular drawing shape with an additional set
> > of lines. It can be used as a description for a fixed point inside a
> > drawing.
> I don't recognise any of that xml Rich.
> In writer, insert an svg line or audio file or image,
> right click, add caption, save, unzip and look for the caption
> text. Nothing like what you included.
> I guess we are talking at cross purposes here?
>
This was taken from the caption documentation in the ODF spec.
>
> Change of subject!
> I made a plea for svg:g element use.
>
>
> > Groups definitely help and I am not saying not to use groups.
> I can't, today, in ODF.
>
> But groups
> > can be formed
> > and then connected to other objects. In this instance we would want the
> > group (IMO) to
> > hide all the internal connections, etc. and act as a single drawing object
> > which would be
> > connected and become part of the navigation sequence.
>
> Clarification please. Why do you want connectors?
> To present a navigation sequence to an eyes free user?
> In svg you can navigate between groups, lines, any xml element.
> You can't hide internal elements.
>
Here is an ODF connector in a presentation diagram:
<draw:connector draw:name="Object Connectors1" draw:style-name="gr1" draw:text-style-name="P2" draw:layer="layout" svg:x1="8.367cm" svg:y1="11.813cm" svg:x2="16.551cm" svg:y2="12.983cm" draw:start-shape="id1" draw:start-glue-point="1" draw:end-shape="id2" />
</draw:connector>
>
> >
> > > Take the tiger on the SVG website. What value would connectors add there?
> > > Thousands of lines, hundreds of connectors. Too much work for too
> > > little reward IMHO
> > >
> > I think we are in violent agreement. The tiger would be a group and all
> > connections within would be hidden as a result of the grouping.
>
> There are no connections, unless the author generates them?
> A machine is unlikely to be able to do it?
>
See above connector from the presentationtest.odp file I sent to the list. .odp files
have connector constructs.
>
> > In ODP we have connectors and when used we want to connect the objects
> > together and show the associations.
> I've never seen one in the XML I've generated, nor in the SVG I've generated
> outside of ODF.
>
See the content.xml file in the .odp file I sent you.
>
>
> Here
> > is an example I am playing with:
> >
> > (See attached file: presentationtest.odp)
>
> Are you talking about the presentation tool?
> I'm referring to the svg within a vector drawing within the write package.
> We should declare which package we are talking about, since
> there seems little shared use of SVG.
>
Yes. I am referring to an drawing object in a presentation. In ODF all these drawing objects,
including group, are in the draw and dr3d namespaces, so here is a draw.g group which encompasses: a
3d drawing scene (a box); a connector named "Oject Connectors1"; a connector named "Oject Connectors2";
a draw frame with an embedded text-box with the text "This is another test"; and a connector named "Oject Connectors4":
<draw:g draw:name="group object2" draw:TableGroup="false">
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?presentationtestgrouped=2Eodp?=
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