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Subject: RE: [office-comment] Patent back door for Sun? (ODF all versions)
Bob hi > I think the keyword here is "irrevocably", which presumably has a > meaning outside of the longevity of Sun's participation in OASIS.. Yes, but that "irrevocably" is scoped only to certain things - hence the query. > > If this is the case, is this acceptable to OASIS? I doubt it would > > be acceptable to JTC 1 (newly sensitized to IPR issues by events > > elsewhere), or to the "FOSS community", who enjoy a distinctly > > problematic relationship with Sun. > > I can't speak for the FOSS community other than perhaps to observe > that I think the relationship has actually been pretty good. Of > course in reality the community is really many communities, hence the > qualifier. Still I think the insinuation you are hinting at is really > off target and inappropriate. Corporations are corporations, and exist to make money without necessary regard for anything or anybody else; even if good guys are in charge today they may not be in charge tomorrow - that is why (in my view) it is necessary to treat all corporations with equal scepticism. The problems I was alluding to were the recent spats around OpenSolaris, which are real enough and very pertinent to detail of the current discussion. > > What is needed here is a clearly-stated, perpetual waiver of patent > > rights from all parties who potentially hold them, that applies to > all > > ODF drafts, specifications and standards published by OASIS > > embodying those technologies; not a hard-to-parse, qualified and > > conditional waiver. DIS 29500 has taught us that such clarity is necessary. > > > > Generally I do agree with you (Not that we ever got the clarity we > sought regarding DIS 29500). But I too am in general sceptical of all > of these promises, covenants and what have you. I doubt even if you > would get right the clear and unambiguous waiver you have in mind. I > think they are fiendishly difficult to get right. And they seem > always qualified in one way or another. But yes, in general, I will > always welcome the greatest clarity and lack of ambiguity on this. > > In South Africa at least, such inventions are not patentable subject > matter. Nor in the UK. Probably. The interactions between European and UK law here are something I don't grok, and don't intend to! > And Sun do not have any such patents filed (unless they have slipped > some in while I was not looking). It is for this reason more than any > other, that I do not fear any deficiencies that might exist in their > covenant. Granted that this does not help our US colleagues. > > > Enlightenment / reassurance please! > > Microsoft, in contrast to most other key multinationals in this space, > and which as you know enjoys a distinctly unproblematic relationship > with the FOSS Community Do you _really_ mean "unproblematic" ;-) ? > (not to mention JTC 1) , owns something like a 40% share of the entire > G06F category of patents in SA. Most of which may not be worth the > paper they are printed on, having been obtained without examination at > around $50 a piece, but they do give us good reason to be more than a > little concerned. We worry more about all the loaded guns than the > promises not not to shoot them. Well (and we risking drifting off-topic a little here) in my view software patenting is a nonsense. Of the current banking crisis people are saying now (of toxic debts) "why didn't we see these things were worthless - it is obvious?". I think we can say now that many IPR portfolios are worthless, and that is obvious. No corporation is ever going to profit from a portfolio of junk patents and those that think they will are living in a fantasy land. However, in the current climate it is incumbent on us as standardisers to make standards zones which are free from patenting nonsense; and possibly to lobby for legislation to back this up with real teeth. - Alex.
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