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Subject: Re: [office] Re: [office-comment] Re: my comments on thenumbering spec proposal discussed by David F. andFlorian R.
Hi Oliver, your proposal/suggestion/comment seems to violate the statement explicitly made in the ODF spec: "A list in <text:list> representation could be converted into a list in <text:numbered-paragraph> representation and vice versa." I therfore disagree with your proposal/suggestion/comment. ~Florian >>> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann - Software Engineer - Sun Microsystems <Oliver-Rainer.Wittmann@Sun.COM> 01/09/07 12:14 PM >>> David Faure wrote: > On Monday 11 December 2006 17:22, Michael Brauer - Sun Germany - ham02 - Hamburg wrote: >> Hi, >> >> The original ODF list concept is that we have <text:list> elements in the content, and a >> list style. Each list has its own numbering. That is, if I have two <text:list> elements >> they both start with 1. > This seems sensible. Note that it contradicts Oliver's interpretation ("If you want to use the same list > style for two separate lists, then you have to define for the second list, that the numbering has to restart.") > >> When using <text:list> elements the list styles only specifies the >> layout of the list. The lists themselves are identified by <text:list> elements, but not >> by the style name. >> The only problem we have is that we cannot change the style within a >> list. The style:overwrite attribute that has been proposed would solve this. > ... so you would agree with the style:overwrite attribute being a text:list-item attribute rather than text:list attribute, right? > Otherwise you need two <text:list>s to change the style and this breaks the structure. > E.g. my 1/2/3/A/B example should be modelled as only one text:list, not two. > Another example would be differently-numbered subsections, like: > 1. > 1.1. > 1.2. > 2. > 2.A) > 2.B) > In this example it really is just one list, otherwise the numbering will end up being wrong. > This example also shows why we (koffice) dislike the "define 10 levels in one list style". > Not all items in this list use the same style. style-override at the item level solves this indeed, > although it requires that one style is the "normal" one and the other one is the "override" > With text:numbered-paragraph and one level per list style, the above would simply 6 numbered > paragraphs pointing to whichever style they want to use. > > ==== > > To be fair, if OOo is supposed to be implement text:list correctly, then I'm still very confused > by the semantics. For instance if I increase the level (e.g. using the tab key) I get two paragraphs > with the same number, see attached document. For 4 paragraphs of depths of 1/1/2/2, I would > expect to get A/B/a/b or A/B/1/2 or A/B/<nothing>/<nothing> or A/B/A/B if the same style is > defined for level 2, but certainly not A/B/B/C !? > > Why does ODF define 10 levels in one style, while even the OOo GUI doesn't do that? "Numbering 4" > is "A) B) C) D)", but doesn't say anything about what happens at level 2 and below. > Not that I would want it to :) But then I would assume that A) B) is used at level 2 as well, unless > I select another numbering style for those paragraphs. > >> We later introduced <text:numbered-paragraph> elements. The problem we face here is that >> we don't have a <text:list> element, and therefore no way to decide to which list (or >> numbering) they belong. One option would be to define that they all belong to the same >> numbering, and to add an attribute that starts the numbering at a certain paragraph. Other >> options are to re-use the list-style, or to use list-ids. I don't have a clear opinion >> what is the best solution, but I think it is a different issue than the one for the list >> elements, and we should discuss it independent of it. > I agree, that the issue is different and should be solved independently. > > "All belong to the same numbering" is actually more or less what we do in koffice. > For any numbered paragraph, we go up and find other numbered paragraphs of the same level > to find out what this paragraph's number is; and any upper-level (or outline) paragraph stops > the search. > > However the notion of a list-id for a bit more structure sounds nice, and from what I recall, > MSWord lists also have the equivalent of a list-id, this is where this idea mostly comes from. > Hi all, ok, my interpretation of the list style is some how OpenOffice.org driven. I agree that each <text:list> element starts a new list. OpenOffice.org uses attribute text:continue-numbering="true" to achieve the interpretation, that all lists using the same list style belong together. I propose that all <text:numbered-paragraph> by default should belong to *one* list. Thus, by <text:numbered-paragraph> a list with different list styles is possible. I propose to introduce the attribute text:style-override for the <text:list-item> element to support different list styles inside a list defined by the <text:list> element. I propose to introduce the attribute text:list-id for the <text:numbered-paragraph> element to define a group of <text:numbered-paragraph> element to belong to an own list. Regards, Oliver. -- ======================================================================= Sun Microsystems GmbH Oliver-Rainer Wittmann Nagelsweg 55 Software Engineer - StarOffice/OpenOffice.org 20097 Hamburg Germany http://www.sun.de mailto:oliver-rainer.wittmann@sun.com
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